MY GAY-RIGHTS CARTOON IS CHARGED WITH COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!
(newsgroup: alt.politics.homosexuality) -- PART 2 OF 4

======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:39:34 -0700 [[i thank charles schulz for his comic strip peanuts. i saw myself as a combination of all the characters and admired them for being the best they could be. at the time i was reading the whole collection of books in english and spanish, i had no idea i was gay. and when i heard about gay rights marches and anita bryant in the seventies, i couldn't comprehend what was going on at all. schulz did emphasize the tangible, such as adding black children to the experience and that made me feel that those of us who were not white could fit in with the rest of the world. >> Thanks, Orlando. This is exactly what I said from the very beginning of this thread. But Mr Krahlin has no time for this kind of personal anecdote. He is too busy tearing down others & spreading hate to care about such insignificant details. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:53:56 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:39:34 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester wrote: >But Mr Krahlin has no time for this kind of personal anecdote. He is too >busy tearing down others & spreading hate to care about such insignificant >details. Sure I am. And a gay bear doesn't shit in the woods. --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with the "Peenuts" copyright issue: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 22:27:56 GMT On 3 Sep 1998 15:24:47 GMT, orlando@MyXgay-rig.killspam.us.com wrote: > >this whole thing about schulz being homophobic is pure bullshit >and your time could be better spent doing other productive things >for a lot of people. your asking for money for a cheap-parody >that says nothing is offensive and anyone sending you money is >out of their minds. > >orlando Perhaps better rephrased to -- "anyone sending you money is (also) out of their minds". ward ------------------------------------------------------------- The 1964 Civil Rights Act is "the single most dangerous piece of legislation ever introduced in the Congress" He later opposed a national holiday for that "pervert" Martin Luther King Jr. Who but? Jesse Helms ------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:56:59 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 22:27:56 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) wrote: >Perhaps better rephrased to -- "anyone sending you money is (also) out >of their minds". I don't worship money; I'm a free spirit. --- Right-wing queers are all it takes To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes. --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue: http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 22:26:00 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 22:27:56 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) wrote: >Perhaps better rephrased to -- "anyone sending you money is (also) out >of their minds". This is the third good idea you've given me, Wart! How could I ever repay you? I know: a vacation in Hawaii! Okay, now, to those who approve of my cause, and my political strategies, and want to lend a hand with financial support: Send money order or cash (no checks please, as I risk many homophobes sending me intentionally bad checks) to: Ezekiel J. Krahlin 584 Castro St., Suite 436 San Francisco, CA 94114 Or send material donations such as computer upgrades and other stuff I might think of later on. All monies/contributions will go directly into my gay rights cause in one way or another...and I will keep my contributions and expense record constantly updated, and made available to the public, on my web site. Not one penny will go towards "profit", or any other personal material gain. All contributors shall be given full credit for their donations...unless they request anonymity. I cannot accept anything that is C.O.D., or would cost me in any other manner. If you want your donation to go to something specific, please state in a letter to where you want it to go, such as: "computer equipment", "distribute to gay poor", "office expenses", for examples. If you do state a specific request as to how you want the donation spent, and I cannot agree to that request, I will immediately return said donation. If you trust me to handle all donations honestly, you can always make your request: "Ezekiel Krahlin's cause for gay rights", or just don't make any specific statement. A present need: an entire, new computer system, as this one is rather old, now. I'd prefer two identical hard drives...one for backup...rather than something like a "zip" drive, as they are not very good. Here's what I'd like in a new system: - decent SVGA monitor - 64 MB RAM - Sound Blaster sound card - decent speakers - two 3-gigabyte hard drives - CD-ROM or DVD drive - 56 kilobyte external modem - 300MHz CPU or faster - 4MB 3-D video card Anyone who may really be *serious about contributing a new computer system, please contact me first, as I know which brands are reliable and give you a lot of bang for the book...and which ones to avoid. Also, I need anyone who wants to support my Pee Nuts legal case, to send my material that will contribute to my defense. Photocopies of other examples of Sunday comics and cartoon parodies by Mad Magazine and other publications would be great. Anything else that comes to mind, too! Please note I cannot afford to reimburse anyone for cost of mailing copying, etc. I consider this a community effort, with me as the organizer. Up, up and away! --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) Date: 9 Sep 1998 20:58:27 -0500 In article <35f6fc9d.5564723@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: > - decent SVGA monitor > - 64 MB RAM > - Sound Blaster sound card > - decent speakers > - two 3-gigabyte hard drives > - CD-ROM or DVD drive > - 56 kilobyte external modem > - 300MHz CPU or faster > - 4MB 3-D video card I would recommend a Macintosh G3 system. Macintoshes give you much better "bang for the buck" than any PC and are much more reliable. Contrary to the prevailing myth, there is plenty of software available for the MacOS in all software categories. -Mike (stirring the pot) -- Mike Silverman -- cubsfan at turnleft.com -- Lawrence, KS http://www.turnleft.com/personal ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:12:06 GMT On 9 Sep 1998 20:58:27 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote: >I would recommend a Macintosh G3 system. Macintoshes give you much better >"bang for the buck" than any PC and are much more reliable. Contrary to >the prevailing myth, there is plenty of software available for the MacOS >in all software categories. Thanks for the tip...but my expertise is with IBM style clones...so I must stick with them. I have been working on IBM clones since 1984. For an OS I'd prefer Linux BSD, however. I boycott all Microsoft products...so the only thing left to get rid of is my Windoze 95 OS. But if someone *should donate a Mac G3, I will gladly accept, and become a Mac-Head for the first time in my life. However, I find upgrading and replacing parts much less expensive with PCs, and simpler...as Apple is really still a monopoly. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Bill Lindemann Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:55:41 +0000 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > I boycott all Microsoft > products...so the only thing left to get rid of is my Windoze 95 OS. I would too. Microsoft doesn't ship a *single* program with Win95 that is identifiably gay. -Bill ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:02:13 -0700 [[ Microsoft doesn't ship a *single* program with Win95 that is identifiably gay.>> You mean that little wavy cartoon that pops up in Windows 95 when you want to write a letter & asks you if you need help writing it ..... is NOT gay????? ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:38:23 -0700 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > Thanks for the tip...but my expertise is with IBM style clones...so I > must stick with them. I have been working on IBM clones since 1984. > For an OS I'd prefer Linux BSD, however. I boycott all Microsoft > products...so the only thing left to get rid of is my Windoze 95 OS. Psssst. Zeke: Linux and BSD are two different OSs. Jeff jdcroft@nospam.best.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:37:31 GMT On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:38:23 -0700, Jeffrey Croft wrote: >Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: >> For an OS I'd prefer Linux BSD . . . >Psssst. Zeke: Linux and BSD are two different OSs. 'S'okay. You should have read his treatise on virii. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy van Piebles) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:30:42 GMT On 9 Sep 1998 20:58:27 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote: > >I would recommend a Macintosh G3 system. Macintoshes give you much better >"bang for the buck" than any PC and are much more reliable. Contrary to >the prevailing myth, there is plenty of software available for the MacOS >in all software categories. > And since the Apple logo is derived from the rainbow flag they won't care if you make copies of it. Scruffy ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:18:28 GMT On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:30:42 GMT, scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy van Piebles) wrote: >And since the Apple logo is derived from the rainbow flag they won't >care if you make copies of it. 'Scuse me, but, the rainbow flag could never be copyrighted in the first place, no matter Gilbert Baker's claim. The rainbow is such a common design, that one could not wrest if from public domain. Reminds me of a letter to the editor I wrote some years ago: -------------------------------------------------------------- Permission granted by author for anyone to distribute this writing free of charge (including translation into any language)...under condition that no profit is made therefrom, and that it remain intact and complete, including title and credit to the original author. Ezekiel J. Krahlin ezekielk@iname.com -------------------------------------------------------------- DOWN WITH THE RAINBOW FLAG © 1997 by Ezekiel J. Krahlin (Jehovah's Queer Witness) June 26, 1990 Dear Editor, I feel insulted and outraged (as if slapped in the face) by the S.F. Sentinel's article of June 25, 1990 (pg. 18), entitled "The Rainbow Flag: Symbol of Our Pride". If, in truth, our flag's origin comes from one Gilbert Baker just as he describes, then may God(dess) have mercy on our fag/dyke souls! Not only does this article offend my sensibilities as a Hellene, but likewise as an artist, for the following reasons: (1) Originality? The rainbow? Unless my memory fails me, the true author of the rainbow is Mother Nature Herself...whose bright iris peers down the tunnel of artistic history from its inception; long, long before the existence of Hellenic rights (and of humans, for that matter). The act of placing this rainbow on a rectangle of cloth is about as innovative as gluing a blade of grass on a postcard. Therefore, to be "original", an artist must incorporate the rainbow colors in a unique manner not yet done by either nature or artist...something our "artistic wizard" has failed to do. Besides, no talent whatsoever is required to paint, draw, or sew, six plain bars of color. Gilbert Baker made reference to the rainbow as an extension of the free speech movement, and (quote): "...a perfect reflection of Lesbian and Gay freedom, because the flag is the rainbow, and the rainbow is a very beautiful and magical part of nature". Gobbledy-gook, Mr. Baker, gobbledy-gook and hogwash. You can replace the rainbow with the butterfly, the flower, the horse, the sunrise, the snowflake, the ocean, or any other natural wonder, and say the same thing. The rainbow, in and of itself, has no immediate correlation with Gay rights, for it has been used throughout the ages as the backdrop for a myriad of themes and causes...starting, perhaps, with Noah's Ark (the most recent being Jesse Jackson's Rainbow Coalition). In short: like the heart and the star, the rainbow has been overdone and overworked. (2) Add injury to insult: this celebrated "artiste" brags that substance abuse was the catalyst for his supposedly brilliant concept of inventing the rainbow! (I quote: "The idea...came to me during an acid trip".) Who needs an acid trip to imagine a rainbow? Who even needs an artist? Then he describes how his girlfriend, "Fairie", helped him dye the fabric for this remarkable flag, commenting that "...it was all a very organic experience". (Right, lady: as organic as a plastic rotten apple in Denmark!) So here we have this hippie-dippie couple--apparently heterosexual--dropping acid and probably laughing all the way to the bank, for pulling the rainbow-wool over the eyes of our Lesbian/Thracian community. This is the "father" of our flag? What sort of role model is this to pass on to our queer youth? (3) Perhaps Ms. 'Fairie' was Gilbert's girlfriend only in the platonic sense. However, the article gave no indication of that. Nor was there any evidence of Gilbert's achievements or sacrifices on behalf of same-sex civil rights...though he gives great lip service to the glory of Hellene people. In this--the hokiest news article I have ever read--I smell a rat in the form of a hidden agenda. I suspect Gilbert of riding the coattails of Hellenic rights in order to achieve fame and riches...based on eloquent praise and clever public relations. I also suspect Gay turncoats in positions of power who, for whatever ungoddessly reason, promoted Gilbert's design (which isn't even a design in any real sense)! (4) I have saved the worst for last. Gilbert said he did not copyright his rainbow design, as it is a gift of love, that all may freely partake of it. This is indeed the height of vanity...and absurdity. Since his design is merely a rainbow--and nothing more--there is no way he could ever copyright it. No one OWNS the rainbow, Gilbert, nor was it ever possible for you--or anyone else for that matter--to ever possess the rainbow as its sole proprietor. What a maroon! Our queer community takes pride in its artistic sensibilities and great tradition of a long line of the finest artists in history. Yet, we blandly accept (even praise) with open arms a heterosexual artist's plain and unoriginal rendering of six stripes of colors for our "glorious" flag! How could we have let ourselves be so badly duped? Who made this decision? Was there a vote? It seems to me that, something so important as our flag, should be created by a 100%, bona fide Hellene woman or man, whose qualifications include at least five year's active service to our cause, whether in private or public, behind the scenes or right up front. (Nor should she/he need to be an "artist" in the professional sense.) I thus propose a contest to replace our 6-color-bar flag with one that bespeaks genuine artistry...thereby reflecting some of the blood, sweat, and tears of our community's proud struggle towards the liberation of Lesbian/Thracian civil rights. The challenge would be to incorporate the rainbow colors within the flag itself, in a novel (not hackneyed) manner. Contestants must be true-blue Hellene all the way, enclosing (with their entry design) a minimum five-year record of his or her achievements on behalf of queer rights. (A possible variation on this contest would be to select four winning designs, as alternate flags for different Hellenic occasions or seasons.) Voting would be by popular ballot through the Hellene media, such as by newspaper, telephone, or Internet. Let's do it! Down with the old flag and up with the new! As far as Gilbert's milquetoast design goes (which is, unfortunately, our current flag), I am sick of it, and definitely have gotten "over the rainbow". Haven't you? -----finis --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy van Piebles) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:16:44 GMT On Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:18:28 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) wrote: >On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:30:42 GMT, scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy >van Piebles) wrote: > >>And since the Apple logo is derived from the rainbow flag they won't >>care if you make copies of it. > >'Scuse me, but, the rainbow flag could never be copyrighted in the >first place, no matter Gilbert Baker's claim. The rainbow is such a >common design, that one could not wrest if from public domain. Reminds >me of a letter to the editor I wrote some years ago: > ZZZOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooommmmmmmm! Scruffy ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 05:25:14 GMT On Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:16:44 GMT, scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy van Piebles) wrote: >>The rainbow is such a >>common design, that one could not wrest if from public domain. Reminds >>me of a letter to the editor I wrote some years ago: >> > >ZZZOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooommmmmmmm! Send me a postcard before you get back. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:53:52 GMT On 3 Sep 1998 15:24:47 GMT, orlando@MyXgay-rig.killspam.us.com wrote: >this whole thing about schulz being homophobic is pure bullshit >and your time could be better spent doing other productive things >for a lot of people. I never accussed Schulz of homophobia, per se. You should read the thread with a letter better scrutiny. >your asking for money for a cheap-parody that says nothing is >offensive and anyone sending you money is out of their minds. Judgment call! --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with the "Peenuts" copyright issue: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jim Drew Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:29:48 +0100 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > >this whole thing about schulz being homophobic is pure bullshit > >and your time could be better spent doing other productive things > >for a lot of people. > > I never accussed Schulz of homophobia, per se. You should read the > thread with a letter better scrutiny. That's right. Technically, you said "My creator is anti-gay..." And since *you're* the one who did up this "parody", I think that makes *you* the creator of it, no? Jim ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:57:12 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:29:48 +0100, Jim Drew wrote: >> I never accussed Schulz of homophobia, per se. You should read the >> thread with a letter better scrutiny. > >That's right. Technically, you said "My creator is anti-gay..." Uh-huh. Let's just say understanding comprehending multiple levels of meaning, as well as parody, are not your forte. >And since *you're* the one who did up this "parody", I think that makes >*you* the creator of it, no? I am the creator of the creator who creates me. No shit, Sherlock. TO MY LITTLE CHIPMUNK, RANDOLPH ============================== (c) 1998 by Ezekiel Krahlin I sing for Thou, and only Thou, my Dearest Little Chipmunk, my Light of Salvation, my Knight in Shining Armor, my Fountain of Joy, my Father! Builder of Dreams, is there not a single dream of mine that you won't fulfill? Architect of The Universe that I am, I nevertheless beg of you not to overestimate my skills, for I am still an apprentice! Thou dost honor me greatly beyond any dream I ever had, I know full well, but I beseech you to take a day off and get a rest, Good Man! And besides, I have been left alone to guard your house while you've been slaving away all day at the Factory! And a lonely heart is not what you want for me...I've only been trying to get that through your lovely, preoccupied head! Now, Randy, you do understand my situation, I am very certain! The Hour is Now, and the Time is Short, and I need to be in your arms before the curtain falls on this First Act! There is infinite strength, confidence, and joy from two Comrades in love, fighting Armageddon at each other's side! --- Right-wing queers are all it takes To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes. --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue: http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Bill Lindemann Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 05:56:01 +0000 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:29:48 +0100, Jim Drew > wrote: > > >> I never accussed Schulz of homophobia, per se. You should read the > >> thread with a letter better scrutiny. > > > >That's right. Technically, you said "My creator is anti-gay..." > > Uh-huh. Let's just say understanding comprehending multiple levels of > meaning, as well as parody, are not your forte. Nixon was a master of multiple levels of meaning. Of course, the public finally did tire of his bullshit lies (oops, I mean "layered meanings") and he had to leave office. Get the HINT, Zeke? -Bill ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:26:46 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 05:56:01 +0000, Bill Lindemann wrote: >Nixon was a master of multiple levels of meaning. Of course, the public >finally did tire of his bullshit lies (oops, I mean "layered meanings") and >he had to leave office. Get the HINT, Zeke? Your implication of my getting your hint implies you are smarter than me; which you are not. How convenient of you to ignore all the great humans who were also masters of multiple meanings...writers, poets, playwrights, statesmen, philosophers, and so on. Just like any other tool, mastering multiple meanings can be used for either good or bad. Nixon, by the way, was not a master...he was a buffoon. But I'm sure *you find his dealings marvellously complex and subtle. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 09:30:20 -0700 [[How convenient of you to ignore all the great humans who were also masters of multiple meanings...writers, poets, playwrights, statesmen, philosophers, and so on.>> And of course Mr Krahlin monomaniacally counts himself among their number. He is not only a shaman & a savior, but also a statesman & a philosopher. Hallelujah. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:47:06 GMT On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 09:30:20 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester wrote: >And of course Mr Krahlin monomaniacally counts himself among their number. He >is not only a shaman & a savior, but also a statesman & a philosopher. >Hallelujah. I acknowledge the shamanic and liberating potential in many gays and lesbians, not just in myself...which continues to be surpressed by the urbanized, queer power elite, and those who abide by it...such as yourself. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 07:16:25 GMT On 3 Sep 1998 15:24:47 GMT, orlando@MyXgay-rig.killspam.us.com wrote: >your asking for money for a cheap-parody that says nothing is >offensive and anyone sending you money is out of their minds. I really must correct you on this...as you, like so many vulgar entities who participate in this thread, intentionally distort anything I say, that would make me look bad. I am not asking for money, except under one condition: that is is used as a fund raiser for some lesbian or gay group or groups. And in that case, all I ask is 1%. You may consider my parody "cheap", that is your opinion...however, I think it is lower than cheap, lower than dirt, that our mainstream comics continue to exclude gays from this media. It's not just cheap, it's vulgar. So children grow up seeing gays as "other", "alien", "weird"...because, well, if gays were good people, of course they'd have seen them in comic strips. And since they're not...not a one...well, then faggots don't deserve to live in the *real world, too! --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:41:08 GMT On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 16:05:48 +0000, Bill Lindemann wrote: >Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > >> On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 12:41:14 +0000, Bill Lindemann >> wrote: >> >> >Charles Schultz has never addressed date rape is his cartoons either,but that >> >hardly qualifies him as a silent supporter of sexual abuse of >> >women. Ditto for other issues like drug use and child molesting. >> >> Did I ever suggest he should? Do you think being homosexual per se is >> pornographic? Thanks for nothing, then! You need to be defused of your >> homophobia. How dare you compare gay humanity with sexual violence! > >You deliberately misunderstand me, sir. I was comparing sexual >violence with anti-gay violence, by way of comparing Charles Schultz's >failure to address either in Peanuts. > >-Bill May I expect that you will be setting up a picket outside of the editorial offices of Popular Mechanics next week? Why not, they too have failed to address these important questions? ward > ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ "Love, like a mountain-wind upon an oak, Falling upon me, shakes me leaf and bough." Sappho of Lesbos ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:53:58 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:41:08 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) wrote: >May I expect that you will be setting up a picket outside of the >editorial offices of Popular Mechanics next week? Why not, they too >have failed to address these important questions? An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that may be concealing a homophobic agenda. >~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ >"Love, like a mountain-wind upon an oak, >Falling upon me, shakes me leaf and bough." > Sappho of Lesbos >~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ Lovely quote. --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with the "Peenuts" copyright issue: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 17:26:54 -0700 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:41:08 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) > wrote: > > >May I expect that you will be setting up a picket outside of the > >editorial offices of Popular Mechanics next week? Why not, they too > >have failed to address these important questions? > > An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that > may be concealing a homophobic agenda. Sounds like a witch hunt. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 17:37:53 -0700 [[> An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that > may be concealing a homophobic agenda. Sounds like a witch hunt.>> He is on a witch hunt. He is judge, jury, executioner, God, you name it. Hey, angels talk to him. Why not? ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:57:33 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 17:26:54 -0700, Jeffrey Croft wrote: >> An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that >> may be concealing a homophobic agenda. > >Sounds like a witch hunt. If you mean by that: the witches will do the hunting. I hope by now, you know which witch is which! --- Right-wing queers are all it takes To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes. --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue: http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 15:34:32 -0700 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 17:26:54 -0700, Jeffrey Croft > wrote: > > >> An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that > >> may be concealing a homophobic agenda. > > > >Sounds like a witch hunt. > > If you mean by that: the witches will do the hunting. I hope by now, > you know which witch is which! No, let me be more specific. You sound like McCarthy and his communist-hunters. When you say "we shall leave no stone unturned" you sound like you're about to ruin a whole bunch of innocent people's lives just to lend credence to your own delusion. Either that, or it's just a big power trip. Or both... Jeff jdcroft@nospam.best.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:26:49 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 15:34:32 -0700, Jeffrey Croft wrote: >No, let me be more specific. You sound like McCarthy and his >communist-hunters. When you say "we shall leave no stone unturned" you >sound like you're about to ruin a whole bunch of innocent people's lives >just to lend credence to your own delusion. Either that, or it's just a >big power trip. Or both... You intentionally choose to interpret my humorous comments as lacking any levity...thus becomes an attempt to demonize me. You're a boor and a bore. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 09:31:31 -0700 [[You intentionally choose to interpret my humorous comments as lacking any levity.>> Mr Krahlin is too busy rallying the angels for his jihad to have anything remotely resembling a sense of humor. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:47:17 GMT On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 09:31:31 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester wrote: >Mr Krahlin is too busy rallying the angels for his jihad to have anything >remotely resembling a sense of humor. It's not a jihad...in fact, it is diamettrically *opposite to one. You might call it an "anti-jihad"...an "anti-declaration of anti-war". In fact, I really conclude: Does it all really anti-matter? > You should change your name. "Frank" means honest. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) Date: 3 Sep 1998 21:07:05 -0500 In article <35ef1851.12580221@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: > On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:41:08 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) > wrote: > > >May I expect that you will be setting up a picket outside of the > >editorial offices of Popular Mechanics next week? Why not, they too > >have failed to address these important questions? > > An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that > may be concealing a homophobic agenda. Yeah, tell me about it. Their article on how to wire a ground-fault-interrupt bathroom outlet didn't mention ONE THING about gay rights! I must dash off an angry letter immediately! -- Mike Silverman -- cubsfan at turnleft.com -- Lawrence, KS http://www.turnleft.com/personal ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:57:39 GMT On 3 Sep 1998 21:07:05 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote: >Yeah, tell me about it. Their article on how to wire a >ground-fault-interrupt bathroom outlet didn't mention ONE THING about gay >rights! I must dash off an angry letter immediately! Why don't you round up the whole posse? --- Right-wing queers are all it takes To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes. --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue: http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 18:13:06 GMT On 3 Sep 1998 21:07:05 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote: >In article <35ef1851.12580221@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, >ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: > >> On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:41:08 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) >> wrote: >> >> >May I expect that you will be setting up a picket outside of the >> >editorial offices of Popular Mechanics next week? Why not, they too >> >have failed to address these important questions? >> >> An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that >> may be concealing a homophobic agenda. > >Yeah, tell me about it. Their article on how to wire a >ground-fault-interrupt bathroom outlet didn't mention ONE THING about gay >rights! I must dash off an angry letter immediately! Things have gone too far for that -- it is part of an gigantic conspiracy, Popular Science has joined them along with "Aquarium Journal." There is no limit to their terrible agenda -- the only possible action is to set fire to their offices. Surely, by this time, you have noted that Radio Shack is in on the plot to suppress the noble Thracians. Next time you go in give them the wrong telephone number and bollix their computer -- VENGEANCE shall be ours! You man the barricades and I'll head for the Finland Station. Comrade ward ----------------------------------------------------- "They have to convert our agenda into something aggressive. Two guys wanting to be happy together are invading their marriages. Helping a kid who's getting beaten up in school is promoting homosexuality. If you gave me a million dollars, I wouldn't know how to promote homosexuality. Do I hire Don King?" Barney Frank ----------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:26:52 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 18:13:06 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) wrote: >possible action is to set fire to their offices. Surely, by this >time, you have noted that Radio Shack is in on the plot to suppress >the noble Thracians. Next time you go in give them the wrong >telephone number and bollix their computer -- VENGEANCE shall be ours! No self-respecting Thracian would ever set foot in a Radio Shack. He'd use a black box, instead. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:29:24 -0700 In article <35ef1851.12580221@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >>May I expect that you will be setting up a picket outside of the >>editorial offices of Popular Mechanics next week? Why not, they too >>have failed to address these important questions? > >An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that >may be concealing a homophobic agenda. I really, really do hope that you're being sarcastic. --Michelle ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:57:46 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:29:24 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >>An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that >>may be concealing a homophobic agenda. > > I really, really do hope that you're being sarcastic. Just spastic. Perhaps elastic. Or maybe plastic. Could be gastric. Or wishing I were in Maastricht. --- Right-wing queers are all it takes To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes. --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue: http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:32:49 -0700 In article <35efbdde.24917158@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:29:24 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle >Steiner) wrote: > >>>An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that >>>may be concealing a homophobic agenda. >> >> I really, really do hope that you're being sarcastic. > >Just spastic. Perhaps elastic. Or maybe plastic. Could be gastric. > >Or wishing I were in Maastricht. That's fantastic. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:26:59 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:32:49 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >>> I really, really do hope that you're being sarcastic. >> >>Just spastic. Perhaps elastic. Or maybe plastic. Could be gastric. >> >>Or wishing I were in Maastricht. > >That's fantastic. But not too drastic. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jim Drew Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 23:47:03 +0100 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > > Did I ever suggest he should? Do you think being homosexual per se is > pornographic? Thanks for nothing, then! You need to be defused of your > homophobia. How dare you compare gay humanity with sexual violence! Ah, our old friend: "You're opposed to my claims of homophobia, so you must have interlaized homophobia yourself." Next thing you know, Ezekiel here will be comparing some of us to Hitler (and thus invoking the old Usenet saw on that topic). Jim ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:53:47 GMT On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 23:47:03 +0100, Jim Drew wrote: >Ah, our old friend: "You're opposed to my claims of homophobia, so you must have >interlaized homophobia yourself." When someone equates bringing up the topic of homosexuality, to issues of pornography and violence, I'd say s/he is homophobic. This is just like the religious reich's tactic...who would also throw in bestiality. > Next thing you know, Ezekiel here will be >comparing some of us to Hitler (and thus invoking the old Usenet saw on that >topic). If the swastika fits... --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with the "Peenuts" copyright issue: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 19:26:34 -0700 In article <35edba01.15716450@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 12:41:14 +0000, Bill Lindemann >wrote: > >>Charles Schultz has never addressed date rape is his cartoons either,but that >>hardly qualifies him as a silent supporter of sexual abuse of >>women. Ditto for other issues like drug use and child molesting. > >Did I ever suggest he should? Do you think being homosexual per se is >pornographic? Thanks for nothing, then! You need to be defused of your >homophobia. How dare you compare gay humanity with sexual violence! He didn't! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 00:44:04 GMT On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 12:41:14 +0000, Bill Lindemann wrote: >Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: >> I think if Mr. Schulz were a friend, we'd have know by now. Any author >> who does not include the gay issue from time to time, is fair game. >> Silence = death. >Charles Schultz has never addressed date rape is his cartoons either,but that >hardly qualifies him as a silent supporter of sexual abuse of >women. Ditto for other issues like drug use and child molesting. Well said. < snip > >> "Passive homophobia" is far more common than "active"...as it is much >> easier to get away with, and no one can really prove it with direct >> evidence. Schulz, to the best of my knowledge, qualifies as "passive". >> I don't know any mainstream comic that could be considered "active". >B.C. comes damn close, with his lead character (name, anyone?) reeling >off sermons that take up a whole Sunday comic. Wiley, I think his name is. >While I can't remember >him specifically targetting gays, he has made oblique references using >labels like (and this is admittedly a paraphrase of the original) "new social >values", "permissiveness", etc. And his sermons clearly come from a >fundamentalist Christian direction. J. Hart has stated in interviews that his strips are meant to be his work of the Lord, and he will use his cartooning skills to "do God's work". ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 14:59:08 +0300 Bill Lindemann wrote: > Hmm... If you still want to be in-your-face, how > about penning a takeoff called "Family Jerkoff"? > > -Bill How about "Family Circle-jerk"? ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:35:56 GMT On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 14:59:08 +0300, Nicole Lasher wrote: >> Hmm... If you still want to be in-your-face, how >> about penning a takeoff called "Family Jerkoff"? >> >> -Bill > >How about "Family Circle-jerk"? They really are pap, and deserve to be parodied. I will eventually get around to them. Have you seen my Beetle Bailey and Cathy parodies yet? I'm sure you'll get some chuckles out of 'em. The Lesbian/Thracian Sunday Comics http://members.tripod.com/~ezekielk/ I want to add here: if anyone in the gay community cares to, she or he can do their own comic parody, which I will add to my gay comics parody...giving that person complete credit and copyright respect. Here is another example where I offer a project for the gay community at large. I think it would be absolutely terrific, to have a huge anthology of gay sunday comics on a web site! Can you imagine all the controversy and lawsuits this would ensue? And how much we could sue these arrogant bullies...contributing a chunk of these victory spoils to gay civil rights? --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) Date: 2 Sep 1998 15:04:01 -0500 In article <35ed8f36.4759658@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: > On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 14:59:08 +0300, Nicole Lasher > wrote: > > >> Hmm... If you still want to be in-your-face, how > >> about penning a takeoff called "Family Jerkoff"? > >> > >> -Bill > > > >How about "Family Circle-jerk"? > > They really are pap, and deserve to be parodied. Has anyone seen the Family Circus parody which was on the web a few years back. Basically some guy posted Family Circus cartoons absent the caption, and viewers made up their own captions. Thes best 10 or so were then made available to everyone. More often then not these wrre hilarious! -- Mike Silverman -- cubsfan at turnleft.com -- Lawrence, KS http://www.turnleft.com/personal ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:45:49 -0700 In article <35ed8f36.4759658@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >They really are pap, and deserve to be parodied. I will eventually get >around to them. Have you seen my Beetle Bailey and Cathy parodies yet? >I'm sure you'll get some chuckles out of 'em. They are cute and funny. The Peenuts one isn't; it is heterophobic. None of your parodies had any identifiable people of color, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, transgenders, etc. By your own reasoning that means that you're racist, hate minority religions, are transphobic, etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 02:05:26 GMT On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:45:49 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >None of your parodies had any identifiable people of color, Jews, Muslims, >Hindus, transgenders, etc. By your own reasoning that means that you're >racist, hate minority religions, are transphobic, etc. Not to mention the fact that he's _sick_. Have you seen his "baby Jesus" animated .gif? Baby Jesus, in a jumper, tongue hanging out and apparently salivating, sitting on the lap (left knee, actually) of the brawny, hairy PaDonna, thinking "Where's the beef?" He gropes down and to his right with his hand, thinks "Here", and the PaDonna winks. I'm sorry, but I'm not even Christian and I think that's beyond the pale. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 08:50:56 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 02:05:26 GMT, jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood) wrote: >Baby Jesus, in a jumper, tongue hanging out and apparently salivating, >sitting on the lap (left knee, actually) of the brawny, hairy PaDonna, >thinking "Where's the beef?" He gropes down and to his right with his >hand, thinks "Here", and the PaDonna winks. Well, I'm parodying homophobes' fears of gays, who they think are pedophiliac. I'm also parodying Jesus as God's son, and they're both gay! So I decided to manifest their fears before their eyes. God and His Son freaking them out. You'll also enjoy: Jesus on the Okra Winfree Show http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/write/okra.htm (No doubt brainless Michelle will now accuse me of racism, by parodying Oprah Winfrey's name.) >I'm sorry, but I'm not even Christian and I think that's beyond the >pale. You poor, humorless dried out husk of a human being. You *should be a KKKristian with that attitude! Do you realize that I'm Christian? --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with the "Peenuts" copyright issue: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Bill Lindemann Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 05:42:21 +0000 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > >I'm sorry, but I'm not even Christian and I think that's beyond the > >pale. > > You poor, humorless dried out husk of a human being. You *should be a > KKKristian with that attitude! Do you realize that I'm Christian? You know, Zeke, I don't trust gays who claim they are Christian. All that internalized homophobia that the religion inculcates, dontcha know! Some Xtian gays say you should trust them, don't be put off by their Christianity, but you know what, when the ax first came into the forest the trees said "the handle is one of us". -Bill (sticking tongue in cheek with this post ... but NOT is Zeke's cheeks!) ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:54:04 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 05:42:21 +0000, Bill Lindemann wrote: >You know, Zeke, I don't trust gays who claim they are Christian. All >that internalized homophobia that the religion inculcates, dontcha know! I was raised as a Christian...that makes me Christian. I have no qualms about parodying Christianity...nor would I be against outlawing all churches that preach homophobia, as well as any other bigotry. Furthermore, I don't attend any church, for I have not found one that practices the golden rule as Christ taught it. I am a renegade Christian. And it thrills me no end to declare myself Christian, as well as gay, before these bible thumpers...for they do not want to hear that...especially coming from one who speaks blasphemy from their prejudiced point of view. It is an unpardonable sin that our courts have *not challenged these right-wing churches regarding their gay hatred. They should be dragged before jurors, and told to prove to them, where in either bible, it says that gays should be villified, or even regarded as sinful. There is no clear cite that exists. As Amerikan courts demand substantial proof in all cases being tried for dubious dogma...it would be a simple process to challenge our homophobic Christian organizations. That fact this has *not been done, only indicates how polluted our legal system has become, with the same KKKristian Kreeps who espouse gay hatred. Amerika has failed in keeping church separate from state. --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with the "Peenuts" copyright issue: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Bill Lindemann Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 06:06:06 +0000 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > It is an unpardonable sin that our courts have *not challenged these > right-wing churches regarding their gay hatred. They should be dragged > before jurors, and told to prove to them, where in either bible, it > says that gays should be villified, or even regarded as sinful. There > is no clear cite that exists. In a pig's eye! Their book says, clearly and unambiguously, that we are an abomination and should be killed. That's why I steer clear of any part of their religion. -Bill ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 23:51:09 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 06:06:06 +0000, Bill Lindemann wrote: >Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > >> It is an unpardonable sin that our courts have *not challenged these >> right-wing churches regarding their gay hatred. They should be dragged >> before jurors, and told to prove to them, where in either bible, it >> says that gays should be villified, or even regarded as sinful. There >> is no clear cite that exists. > >In a pig's eye! Their book says, clearly and unambiguously, that >we are an abomination and should be killed. That's why I steer >clear of any part of their religion. > >-Bill > Interesting (slightly) that Zeke, in his excitement, would propose having the government pass on what is and what is not appropriate content for religious convictions. Even in his imaginary "AmeriKa" this is unlikely to happen. Interesting further that one who so passionately advocates (he thinks) for the bill of rights and the constitutional protections for ALL the citizens would so casually jettison the separation of church and state. ward *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "The default condition for a citizen in our republic is that in any harmless matter he is FREE to act as he will. He is NOT to be restricted by prejudices and animosity amongst his neighbors -- if THEY wish to restrain him from his freedom, THEY must demonstrate the public interest in so restricting him." Uncle Ward *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:27:14 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 23:51:09 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) wrote: > Interesting further that one who so >passionately advocates (he thinks) for the bill of rights and the >constitutional protections for ALL the citizens would so casually >jettison the separation of church and state. You rarely make much sense, Wart...and this, your latest comment, is no exception. My proposal to challenge all homophobic churches to specifically cite the Bible for proof that homosexuality is a sin...will lead to their demise, for lack of substantial evidence. And why hasn't our legal system taken up this very easy task? Because it has failed to truly separate church from state...and challenging KKKrisitian bible thumpers in this way, would vastly weaken any reason they perceive as God's will, to persecute gays. It would then lead to the outlawing and shutting down of anti-gay churches. This is an obvious answer to get a big part of the church out of what belongs to the state. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy van Piebles) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 17:14:31 GMT On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 05:39:35 -0700, desalvo@monitor.net (John De Salvio) wrote: >[...] > >Leviticus declares certain sexual practices as an "abomination" -- a word >that is more clearly understood as to mean "distasteful," not as "sin." > I'm not buying this, John. God would not demand the death penalty over a difference of taste! That would be as ridiculous as God demanding that we wear clothes with a certain color thread in them or cut our hair a certain way or . . . er, never mind. Scruffy ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) Date: 5 Sep 1998 14:47:28 -0500 In article <35F0A3C0.E69A1893@ix.netcom.com>, Bill Lindemann wrote: > Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > > > You rarely make much sense, Wart...and this, your latest comment, is > > no exception. My proposal to challenge all homophobic churches to > > specifically cite the Bible for proof that homosexuality is a > > sin...will lead to their demise, for lack of substantial evidence. > > Ever read Leviticus, Zeke? It can be legitimately argued that there is nothing in the Bible (old or new testament) which condemns homosexuality as we understand it today. -- Mike Silverman -- cubsfan at turnleft.com -- Lawrence, KS http://www.turnleft.com/personal ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:47:43 GMT On 5 Sep 1998 14:47:28 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote: >> Ever read Leviticus, Zeke? > >It can be legitimately argued that there is nothing in the Bible (old or >new testament) which condemns homosexuality as we understand it today. Thank you, Mike. I have already referred anyone who questions this, to one of the best documents that blows to smithereens all homophobic justifications for using the Bible to preach that gays are sinful and should be annihilated. Once more, here it is: http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Stonewall/8944/dave.htm I am proud to claim this author's outstanding work as being showcased on one of my websites. To my knowledge, no one else has done so...though I encourage everyone *to do so! And this is why (as I have said already), it will be no difficult thing for the government to challenge this issue in court...thus putting an end to the right wing's churches. They would be outlawed! And the fact this has not yet been done, only speaks too loudly as to how extensive is gay-hatred in our nation...for it swells far beyond the crowds of the religious reich, and poisons the ranks of even many liberal establishments. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 16:58:08 -0700 In article <35f1b8c3.5326659@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >And this is why (as I have said already), it will be no difficult >thing for the government to challenge this issue in court...thus >putting an end to the right wing's churches. They would be outlawed! For the government to put an end to any church or religion would spell the end of religious freedom in the United States. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 18:36:33 +0200 Michelle Steiner wrote: > For the government to put an end to any church or religion would spell the > end of religious freedom in the United States. In case you haven't noticed, they already have. A person is free to believe anything they want, but when that religion crosses the line to "inciting violence", its beliefs become illegal to perpetuate. The Davidians, the Aryan Nation, and many other religious/activist/possibly terrost groups have already had a taste of the U.S. government's idea of "freedom of religion". The Baptists and others should be held to the same level of accountability. Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. For awhile, the country seemed to understand that, but it is forgetting, and will continue to forget it until they are reminded. ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 09:41:10 -0700 In article <35F2BA11.3677BB2C@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: >> For the government to put an end to any church or religion would spell the >> end of religious freedom in the United States. > >In case you haven't noticed, they already have. I've noticed, and they haven't. >A person is free to believe anything they want, but when that religion crosses >the line to "inciting violence", its beliefs become illegal to perpetuate. >The Davidians, Allegedly had illegal weapons on their compound. It had nothing directly to do with religion. >the Aryan Nation, Is not a religion, nor a religious organization. >and many other religious/activist/possibly >terrost groups have already had a taste of the U.S. government's idea of >"freedom of religion". The Baptists and others should be held to the same >level of accountability. They are being held to it. >Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. For awhile, the country >seemed to understand that, but it is forgetting, and will continue to forget it >until they are reminded. No, it is still not forgetting. The government has not yet approved any religions in deference to any others. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: joshua geller Date: 06 Sep 1998 12:13:02 -0700 michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: > In article <35F2BA11.3677BB2C@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher > wrote: > >A person is free to believe anything they want, but when that > >religion crosses the line to "inciting violence", its beliefs > >become illegal to perpetuate. The Davidians, > Allegedly had illegal weapons on their compound. Dear Michelle, The concept of "illegal weapons" is un-American. Most other legal systems in the world do support such a concept; there are weapons that only the authorized agents of the government are allowed to have. > It had nothing directly > to do with religion. This is not true. > >the Aryan Nation, > Is not a religion, nor a religious organization. Hmm. It has religious aspects to it. More importantly, neonazi types have (as the Davidians did not) actively engaged in violent and antisocial behavior. It is important to differentiate political activities (ie, bombings and assasinations) from religious ideas (ie, the belief that the Jews are the spawn of Satan and responsible for all of the Evil in the world) no matter how distasteful you or I might find these specific religious ideas. Best to you, now as always. Most sincerely, josh ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 14:03:20 -0700 In article , joshua geller wrote: >The concept of "illegal weapons" is un-American. So, you believe that every American has the right to own any weapon he or she wants--even bazookas, LAWs, Rocket Propelled Grenades, hand grenades, etc.? >> >the Aryan Nation, > >> Is not a religion, nor a religious organization. > >Hmm. It has religious aspects to it. So? >More importantly, neonazi types >have (as the Davidians did not) actively engaged in violent and >antisocial behavior. It is important to differentiate political >activities (ie, bombings and assasinations) from religious ideas (ie, >the belief that the Jews are the spawn of Satan and responsible for >all of the Evil in the world) no matter how distasteful you or I might >find these specific religious ideas. I agree. That's why I say that shutting down churches because some of their adherants engage in violence is not a good idea. --Michelle ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: "James Doemer" Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 17:48:49 -0400 Michelle Steiner wrote in message ... >In article , joshua geller > wrote: > >>The concept of "illegal weapons" is un-American. > >So, you believe that every American has the right to own any weapon he or >she wants--even bazookas, LAWs, Rocket Propelled Grenades, hand grenades, >etc.? Hate to break it too ya, but numerous American's already own such weapons.. Takes a bunch of of permits though. > >>> >the Aryan Nation, >> >>> Is not a religion, nor a religious organization. >> >>Hmm. It has religious aspects to it. > >So? > >>More importantly, neonazi types >>have (as the Davidians did not) actively engaged in violent and >>antisocial behavior. It is important to differentiate political >>activities (ie, bombings and assasinations) from religious ideas (ie, >>the belief that the Jews are the spawn of Satan and responsible for >>all of the Evil in the world) no matter how distasteful you or I might >>find these specific religious ideas. > >I agree. That's why I say that shutting down churches because some of >their adherants engage in violence is not a good idea. > >--Michelle > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >| Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | >| michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | >---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 14:58:00 -0700 In article <35f302c8.0@news.provide.net>, "James Doemer" wrote: >>So, you believe that every American has the right to own any weapon he or >>she wants--even bazookas, LAWs, Rocket Propelled Grenades, hand grenades, >>etc.? > >Hate to break it too ya, but numerous American's already own such weapons.. Why do you hate to break it to me? >Takes a bunch of of permits though. So? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: "James Doemer" Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 19:16:34 -0400 Michelle Steiner wrote in message ... >In article <35f302c8.0@news.provide.net>, "James Doemer" > wrote: > >>>So, you believe that every American has the right to own any weapon he or >>>she wants--even bazookas, LAWs, Rocket Propelled Grenades, hand grenades, >>>etc.? >> >>Hate to break it too ya, but numerous American's already own such weapons.. > >Why do you hate to break it to me? You seem displeased with the fact that Americans do have such rights... > >>Takes a bunch of of permits though. > >So? > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >| Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | >| michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | >---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 17:45:38 -0700 In article <35f3175b.0@news.provide.net>, "James Doemer" wrote: >Michelle Steiner wrote in message ... >>In article <35f302c8.0@news.provide.net>, "James Doemer" >> wrote: >> >>>>So, you believe that every American has the right to own any weapon he or >>>>she wants--even bazookas, LAWs, Rocket Propelled Grenades, hand grenades, >>>>etc.? >>> >>>Hate to break it too ya, but numerous American's already own such >weapons.. >> >>Why do you hate to break it to me? > >You seem displeased with the fact that Americans do have such rights... Nope, not at all. I do think that not everyone should be able to own a hand grenade or bazooka, though; just those who show that they can be responsible with them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 23:26:14 GMT On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 17:48:49 -0400, "James Doemer" wrote: >Hate to break it too ya, but numerous American's already own such weapons.. >Takes a bunch of of permits though. Hey, tough talker, gay-friendly hetero: So why'nt you reply to my suggestion that you send a letter to the editor to major newspapers in your region...requesting they include a gay comic strip in the daily and Sunday comics? Did you conveniently bypass that post? --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: "James Doemer" Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:16:04 -0400 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote in message <35f318a7.20155530@nntp.sj.bigger.net>... >On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 17:48:49 -0400, "James Doemer" >wrote: > >>Hate to break it too ya, but numerous American's already own such weapons.. >>Takes a bunch of of permits though. > >Hey, tough talker, gay-friendly hetero: So why'nt you reply to my >suggestion that you send a letter to the editor to major newspapers in >your region...requesting they include a gay comic strip in the daily >and Sunday comics? Did you conveniently bypass that post? > > A.. When have I ever come off as a "tough talker"? B.. I didn't see your suggestion, the news server that my ISP uses isn't as reliable as I'd like.. It works fine for awhile, then sometimes it sends my messages into the unknown ether, and/or doesn't pick up some messages. My ISP says he is trying to track down the problem. However, the last week and a half has been sporatic at best as far as news posts. C..I will consider sending such a letter, perhaps you would E-mail me a sample of such a strip to include in my letter. I will send a letter to the Detroit News & Ann Arbor News, the two major papers in my area. D..The appropriate contraction to "why'nt" is "why didn't".. Not relevant, but clears up your meaning a bit. E..You seem to be directing a great deal of anger towards me here, is there some other problem between us?? ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 08:33:14 GMT On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:16:04 -0400, "James Doemer" wrote: >A.. When have I ever come off as a "tough talker"? In your message to which I commented. >C..I will consider sending such a letter, perhaps you would > E-mail me a sample of such a strip to include in my letter. > I will send a letter to the Detroit News & Ann Arbor News, > the two major papers in my area. Excellent! Thanks much. You should have access to gay material via your friends? Check with them, for a list of several names of cartoonists. Or have someone else in this thread give you a list. Remember, I am busy with the Schulz issue, and can't be detracted too much from this, for the time being. One gay comic strip has already been mentioned by M. Silverman: "The Mostly Unfabulous Life of Ethan Greene." >E..You seem to be directing a great deal of anger towards > me here, Wrong. If you consider this a great deal of anger, then how do you handle a simple "No" without falling to pieces? >is there some other problem between us?? Nope. Other than your slow perception of gay politics. I get very tired of heteros who claim to be gay-friendly...yet they still don't read any gay newspapers, or even know how to get one, when they need to refer to something in it. This is just one example of hets who claim to be gay friendly...yet remain blissfully ignorant of many basic issues that gay people have to deal with. You have gay friends, don't you...so ask them for the material, not me, who lives 2,000 miles away! --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: "James Doemer" Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:44:54 -0400 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote in message <35f3944a.12045427@nntp.sj.bigger.net>... >On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:16:04 -0400, "James Doemer" >wrote: > >>A.. When have I ever come off as a "tough talker"? > >In your message to which I commented. In what way?? It was a statement of fact only... > >>C..I will consider sending such a letter, perhaps you would >> E-mail me a sample of such a strip to include in my letter. >> I will send a letter to the Detroit News & Ann Arbor News, >> the two major papers in my area. > >Excellent! Thanks much. You should have access to gay material via >your friends? Check with them, for a list of several names of >cartoonists. Or have someone else in this thread give you a list. >Remember, I am busy with the Schulz issue, and can't be detracted too >much from this, for the time being. One gay comic strip has already >been mentioned by M. Silverman: "The Mostly Unfabulous Life of Ethan >Greene." > >>E..You seem to be directing a great deal of anger towards >> me here, > >Wrong. If you consider this a great deal of anger, then how do you >handle a simple "No" without falling to pieces? > A simple no is not what you posted.. Of course you conveinently snipped that part of the post and, as your pattern, refused to answer the question. When someone starts a post, "Ok Mr. Tough Talker..." it bespeaks of some pent up hostility. You also conveinently snipped the reasons I didn't respond to your previous request, without addressing them. Mr. Krahlin, these are not the actions of a warrior, or a person with honor. If you have the time to tear yourself from the Schulz issue long enough to answer this post, then you should have enough time to cut & paste an example of what you wish me to endorse in an e-mail. >>is there some other problem between us?? > >Nope. Other than your slow perception of gay politics. As I've stated before, I am in a learning mode on these issues, if I'm not learning fast enough for you, and you have a problem with it, then it's your problem. >I get very tired of heteros who claim to be gay-friendly...yet they >still don't read any gay newspapers, or even know how to get one, when >they need to refer to something in it. So, if I don't act in the exact manner you subscribe, read gay newspapers, or even care to, then I'm not gay supportive...? I don't need to refer to anything in it, I don't need to send this letter. I never claimed to have thrown myself headlong into the gay cause. I do what I can, when I can. If that's not good enough for you, tough. >This is just one example of >hets who claim to be gay friendly...yet remain blissfully ignorant of >many basic issues that gay people have to deal with. You have gay >friends, don't you...so ask them for the material, not me, who lives >2,000 miles away! You want the letter sent, you asked me to specifically endorse something you felt was important, then you provide the material. Of the 5 gays I asked, 4 of them said, "Ethan who?" , the other said, "Yeah, I've read it, it's not funny..." I also read it and found it mostly humorless. Perhaps you have a better example? ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:27:23 GMT On Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:44:54 -0400, "James Doemer" wrote: >A simple no is not what you posted.. Of course you conveinently snipped >that part of the post and, as your pattern, refused to answer the question. >When someone starts a post, "Ok Mr. Tough Talker..." it bespeaks of some >pent up hostility. Thou doth protesteth too much! >You also conveinently snipped the reasons I didn't >respond to your previous request, without addressing them. No need to repeat what has already been said. >Mr. Krahlin, these are not the actions of a warrior, or a person with honor. Your judgment is dubious. >If you have the time to tear yourself from the Schulz issue long enough >to answer this post, Barely. >then you should have enough time to cut & paste an example of what >you wish me to endorse in an e-mail. The buck stops with James Doemer. >As I've stated before, I am in a learning mode on these issues, if I'm >not learning fast enough for you, and you have a problem with it, then >it's your problem. And a blah, blah, blah, to you, sir! >So, if I don't act in the exact manner you subscribe, read gay newspapers, >or even care to, then I'm not gay supportive...? Go figure. >You want the letter sent, you asked me to specifically endorse something >you felt was important, then you provide the material. Of the 5 gays I >asked, 4 of them said, "Ethan who?" , the other said, "Yeah, I've read it, >it's not funny..." I also read it and found it mostly humorless. >Perhaps you have a better example? Is that the *only gay comic your five gay friends know of? I do suggest you own up to your responsiblity in this matter. I am not guilty for your own shortcomings. For shame, for shame, for HETERO shame! --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: "James Doemer" Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:43:55 -0400 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote in message <35f4450d.7289519@nntp.sj.bigger.net>... >On Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:44:54 -0400, "James Doemer" >wrote: > >>A simple no is not what you posted.. Of course you conveinently snipped >>that part of the post and, as your pattern, refused to answer the question. >>When someone starts a post, "Ok Mr. Tough Talker..." it bespeaks of some >>pent up hostility. > >Thou doth protesteth too much! Whatever... Failure to address the issue noted.. > >>You also conveinently snipped the reasons I didn't >>respond to your previous request, without addressing them. > >No need to repeat what has already been said. > Especially when you're in the wrong... Failure to address the issue noted. >>Mr. Krahlin, these are not the actions of a warrior, or a person with honor. > >Your judgment is dubious. Especially when you're in the wrong... Failure to address the issue noted. > >>If you have the time to tear yourself from the Schulz issue long enough >>to answer this post, > >Barely. > Yet the time exists. >>then you should have enough time to cut & paste an example of what >>you wish me to endorse in an e-mail. > >The buck stops with James Doemer. > Asking for a buck would be copyright infringement.. You wish it endorsed, then I need to see a specific example. >>As I've stated before, I am in a learning mode on these issues, if I'm >>not learning fast enough for you, and you have a problem with it, then >>it's your problem. > >And a blah, blah, blah, to you, sir! > Good, intelligent, mature... >>So, if I don't act in the exact manner you subscribe, read gay newspapers, >>or even care to, then I'm not gay supportive...? > >Go figure. > Hit the bottom of a dry well today Ezekial? >>You want the letter sent, you asked me to specifically endorse something >>you felt was important, then you provide the material. Of the 5 gays I >>asked, 4 of them said, "Ethan who?" , the other said, "Yeah, I've read it, >>it's not funny..." I also read it and found it mostly humorless. >>Perhaps you have a better example? > >Is that the *only gay comic your five gay friends know of? It seems so..... Other than the gay neighbor portrayed in "The Fabulously Furry Freak Brothers" , some years ago... But I don't think that counts, it was a pretty negative portrayal. >I do >suggest you own up to your responsiblity in this matter. I am not >guilty for your own shortcomings. And I am not responsible for your wants sir. My "shortcomings", in this life are numerous, and I quickly pony up and admit them, and display them for all to see. You on the other hand have a huge problem with self inspection. I have no responsibility in this matter. I have sworn no allegiance to you, or your cause. In short, I owe you nothing save the same respect that I owe to any other person on the planet, and that I expect in return. If you wish me to endorse something, I need to see a specific example of that something. This is not a difficult concept. > >For shame, for shame, for HETERO shame! > > Why do you have such a desire to see me shamed?? ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:40:24 -0700 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 17:48:49 -0400, "James Doemer" > wrote: > > >Hate to break it too ya, but numerous American's already own such weapons.. > >Takes a bunch of of permits though. > > Hey, tough talker, gay-friendly hetero: So why'nt you reply to my > suggestion that you send a letter to the editor to major newspapers in > your region...requesting they include a gay comic strip in the daily > and Sunday comics? Did you conveniently bypass that post? Are you feeling ignored? Poor baby... Everyone pay attention to Zeke now! He needs it. Jeff jdcroft@nospam.best.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 11:53:43 GMT michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: >In article <35F2BA11.3677BB2C@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher > wrote: >>> For the government to put an end to any church or religion would spell the >>> end of religious freedom in the United States. >> >>In case you haven't noticed, they already have. >I've noticed, and they haven't. They most certainl have. The State of California put an end to The Church of the Most High Goddess by imprisoning its leader and founder, High Priestess Sabrina Aset. john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry) ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: jtem@tiac.net (JTEM) Date: 16 Sep 1998 03:22:43 GMT Fred Cherry (john1@world.std.com) wrote: [--absolutely nothing--] abuse@world.std.com billing@world.std.com bzs@world.std.com netadmin@world.std.com postmaster@world.std.com root@world.std.com staff@world.std.com support@world.std.com webmaster@world.std.com -- JTEM@SUNSPOT.TIAC.NET ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 18:39:38 +0200 Ward Stewart wrote: > You just don't get it do you Michelle -- some religions are naughty > and some religions are nice and in Thrace, Zeke will decide who is > who, he's got a little list! > > ward So what you're saying is that you wouldn't disapprove of the Aryan Nation actively recruiting in your neighborhood? How about an angry hoarde of Baptists trying to save you from the "curse of homosexuality" on a daily basis? How much of that do you think you could take before making a list of your own? ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 09:46:27 -0700 In article <35F2BACA.6C2BE06E@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: > > >Ward Stewart wrote: > >> You just don't get it do you Michelle -- some religions are naughty >> and some religions are nice and in Thrace, Zeke will decide who is >> who, he's got a little list! >> >> ward > >So what you're saying is that you wouldn't disapprove of the Aryan Nation >actively recruiting in your neighborhood? The Aryan Nation is not a religion; it is simply a hate group, like the Klan, the American Nazi Party, or Operation Rescue. >How about an angry hoarde of >Baptists trying to save you from the "curse of homosexuality" on a daily >basis? How much of that do you think you could take before making a list of >your own? It depends on how they go about doing it. The point is that they have a right to express their opinions, no matter how distasteful those opinions might be, so long as they do not incite violence or any other form of law breaking. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:51:46 +0200 Michelle Steiner wrote: > The Aryan Nation is not a religion; it is simply a hate group, like the > Klan, the American Nazi Party, or Operation Rescue. Oh dear... Hon, in a small (but growing) town, in Moscow Idaho, there is a church... I hate to break this to you, but the Aryan Nation, as opposed to the American Nazi Party, is indeed based on the Aryan Church, b.k.a. Church of Jesus Christ Christian-Aryan Nations. You can visit their website at http://www.nidlink.com/~aryanvic/index-E-Links.html if you don't believe me. They are pretty fluid, and change tactics and names every so often, but it's the same people. They are in no way "simply a hate group" as few organizations are ever simply hate groups. Their hate is usually based on something they consider to be logical. In this case, it's a hatred towards anyone not of the "master race" based on their interpretation of the bible. > >How about an angry hoarde of > >Baptists trying to save you from the "curse of homosexuality" on a daily > >basis? How much of that do you think you could take before making a list of > >your own? > > It depends on how they go about doing it. The point is that they have a > right to express their opinions, no matter how distasteful those opinions > might be, so long as they do not incite violence or any other form of law > breaking. Yes, but freedoms of speech isn't isolated to them. It is for us too. If they have a right to spew their garbage, we have an equal right to refute it. Their rights end where our rights begin, and vise versa...only problem is that they seem to have this bad habit of overstepping their boundaries...They DO incite violence, and break the law. ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 14:00:13 -0700 In article <35F2F5E2.CF5B7B39@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: >> The Aryan Nation is not a religion; it is simply a hate group, like the >> Klan, the American Nazi Party, or Operation Rescue. > >Oh dear... >Hon, in a small (but growing) town, in Moscow Idaho, there is a church... >I hate to break this to you, but the Aryan Nation, as opposed to the American >Nazi Party, is indeed based on the Aryan Church, b.k.a. Church of Jesus Christ >Christian-Aryan Nations. Even so, it is no more a church than the Christian Coalition is a church. >> It depends on how they go about doing it. The point is that they have a >> right to express their opinions, no matter how distasteful those opinions >> might be, so long as they do not incite violence or any other form of law >> breaking. > >Yes, but freedoms of speech isn't isolated to them. It is for us too. If they >have a right to spew their garbage, we have an equal right to refute it. I've never disputed that. >Their rights end where our rights begin, and vise versa... Not necessarily. Their right to swing their fists ends at our noses, and vice versa. >only problem is that they >seem to have this bad habit of overstepping their boundaries...They DO incite >violence, and break the law. I'm not disputing this either, but the churches themselves do not. Goddess knows I've gone up agains them enough, and have been physically assaulted by some of them (when I've been escorting at abortion clinics), and verbally assaulted as well, in many venues. This doesn't mean that the government has any right to shut down their churches. If the government shuts them down for preaching things that the government says is not supported by their Bible, then Orthodox Jews can have the church shut down Reform and conservative Synagogues, or vice versa, or the Catholics can have the government shut down Protestant churches--etc., etc., etc. Zeke does have some good points, but this idea of having the government shutting down churches for violating their own Biblical teachings is pure idiocy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:03:54 GMT On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 14:00:13 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >I'm not disputing this either, but the churches themselves do not. Goddess >knows I've gone up agains them enough, and have been physically assaulted >by some of them (when I've been escorting at abortion clinics), and >verbally assaulted as well, in many venues. This doesn't mean that the >government has any right to shut down their churches. You are awfully good at distoring an issue, Michelle. We are not talking about shutting down churches...though you would twist the dialogue in that direction! We are speaking of applying the same laws against other abusive groups, to churches. The chuches should have never been tacitly excluded in the first place. Clearly, those religious groups preaching and acting up gay-hatred are in violation of our laws, as well as of their own holy texts. So what churches or religious groups get disbanded, will only be those that do not comply with a court order to cease the hate crimes against homosexuals. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 16:08:39 -0700 In article <35f3056c.15231825@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 14:00:13 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle >Steiner) wrote: > >>I'm not disputing this either, but the churches themselves do not. Goddess >>knows I've gone up agains them enough, and have been physically assaulted >>by some of them (when I've been escorting at abortion clinics), and >>verbally assaulted as well, in many venues. This doesn't mean that the >>government has any right to shut down their churches. > >You are awfully good at distoring an issue, Michelle. We are not >talking about shutting down churches...though you would twist the >dialogue in that direction! You are a liar! I quote from your own message: >First, we bring these churchs into court, and challenge them >to provide solid evidence that either of their two bibles promotes >villification of homosexuals, or even describes homosexuality as a >sin. They would quickly lose their case, for these two books alone, >are their only justification for promoting condemnation of >homosexuality. Then, any church that persists in preaching against >hommosexuality, would be given fair warning to cease and desist, or >else: or else, they'll be shut down. I don't have any more time to waste on hateful, small-minded liars and bigots like you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: joshua geller Date: 06 Sep 1998 16:25:11 -0700 michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: > In article <35F2F5E2.CF5B7B39@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher > wrote: > >I hate to break this to you, but the Aryan Nation, as opposed to > >the American Nazi Party, is indeed based on the Aryan Church, > >b.k.a. Church of Jesus Christ Christian-Aryan Nations. > Even so, it is no more a church than the Christian Coalition is a church. Why is that, Michelle? You might think that their religious ideas are stupid or evil; if you do, I agree with you. But they are as entitled to them as you are to yours or I am to mine. Freedom of religion means freedom of religion for people that you (or I) disagree with. It's easy to grant freedom to people that you like or approve of; somewhat harder to grant freedom to people that you hate or despise. My best, josh ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 17:33:25 -0700 In article , joshua geller wrote: >michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: >> In article <35F2F5E2.CF5B7B39@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher >> wrote: > >> >I hate to break this to you, but the Aryan Nation, as opposed to >> >the American Nazi Party, is indeed based on the Aryan Church, >> >b.k.a. Church of Jesus Christ Christian-Aryan Nations. > >> Even so, it is no more a church than the Christian Coalition is a church. > >Why is that, Michelle? Why is what? That something that is not a church or religion is not a church or religion? Because it isn't. The Republican Party is not a church, the Klan is not a church, the Christian Coalition is not a Church, and Aryan Nation is not a church. None of them claim to be a church. >You might think that their religious ideas are stupid or evil; if you >do, I agree with you. But they are as entitled to them as you are to >yours or I am to mine. Freedom of religion means freedom of religion >for people that you (or I) disagree with. It's easy to grant freedom >to people that you like or approve of; somewhat harder to grant >freedom to people that you hate or despise. I agree with everything you wrote, but what you wrote has no relation to what I had written. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: joshua geller Date: 06 Sep 1998 21:06:07 -0700 michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: > In article , joshua geller > wrote: > >michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: > >> In article <35F2F5E2.CF5B7B39@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher > >> wrote: > >> > Church of Jesus Christ Christian-Aryan Nations. ^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ > >> Even so, it is no more a church than the Christian Coalition is a church. > >Why is that, Michelle? > Why is what? That something that is not a church or religion is not a > church or religion? Because it isn't. The Republican Party is not a > church, the Klan is not a church, the Christian Coalition is not a Church, > and Aryan Nation is not a church. None of them claim to be a church. Dear Michelle, See above. This specific organization, which Ms. Lasher mentions (I emphasize above) is a church. > >You might think that their religious ideas are stupid or evil; if you > >do, I agree with you. But they are as entitled to them as you are to > >yours or I am to mine. Freedom of religion means freedom of religion > >for people that you (or I) disagree with. It's easy to grant freedom > >to people that you like or approve of; somewhat harder to grant > >freedom to people that you hate or despise. > I agree with everything you wrote, but what you wrote has no relation to > what I had written. Possibly so. My best, josh ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:20:23 -0700 In article , joshua geller wrote: >michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: >> In article , joshua geller >> wrote: >> >michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: >> >> In article <35F2F5E2.CF5B7B39@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher >> >> wrote: > >> >> > Church of Jesus Christ Christian-Aryan Nations. > ^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ > >> >> Even so, it is no more a church than the Christian Coalition is a church. > >> >Why is that, Michelle? > >> Why is what? That something that is not a church or religion is not a >> church or religion? Because it isn't. The Republican Party is not a >> church, the Klan is not a church, the Christian Coalition is not a Church, >> and Aryan Nation is not a church. None of them claim to be a church. > >Dear Michelle, > >See above. This specific organization, which Ms. Lasher mentions (I >emphasize above) is a church. Yes, she mentioned it, but that's not what we were talking about. We were talking about the organization called the Aryan Nation, which is something apart and different from the church she drug in to confuse the issue. I'm not as easily confused as you are, it seems. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 13:55:08 +0200 Michelle Steiner wrote: > Yes, she mentioned it, but that's not what we were talking about. We were > talking about the organization called the Aryan Nation, which is something > apart and different from the church she drug in to confuse the issue. > > I'm not as easily confused as you are, it seems. No, it seems that you are more confused than he is. The "organization" called "The Aryan Nation" is a church. It started in a church. There are Aryan Nation churches all over the United States, and, I think, one in Russia. The organization is, itself, a church, based on a religion. Members become members of the church. That may not have been what you were talking about, but it was certainly what I was talking about. If you were confused as to the issue, then it is because you didn't read what I posted, or read through "filters". The term "Aryan Nation" is misused alot...but regardless of this misuse, the fact still remains that it is a church, not some generic name to be tagged onto any skinhead. In my postings about churches who have been attacked by the government because of being a base for terrorism, I spoke of the Aryan Nation as what it is. It is not my fault that you aren't listening. ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 09:44:50 -0700 In article <35F3C99B.6A4F9554@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: >The term "Aryan Nation" is misused alot...but regardless of this misuse, the >fact still remains that it is a church, not some generic name to be tagged >onto any skinhead. I never said that it was. there is an organization called "Aryan Nation" that is apart and separate from, although closely aligned with, any churches that are called "Aryan Nation." >In my postings about churches who have been attacked by the government because >of being a base for terrorism, I spoke of the Aryan Nation as what it is. It >is not my fault that you aren't listening. I was listening. It's not my fault that you conflate two separate entities because they share the same name and philsophy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 20:14:26 GMT On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:20:23 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >In article , joshua geller > wrote: > >>michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: >>> In article , joshua geller >>> wrote: >>> >michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: >>> >> In article <35F2F5E2.CF5B7B39@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >> > Church of Jesus Christ Christian-Aryan Nations. >> ^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ >> >>> >> Even so, it is no more a church than the Christian Coalition is a church. >> >>> >Why is that, Michelle? >> >>> Why is what? That something that is not a church or religion is not a >>> church or religion? Because it isn't. The Republican Party is not a >>> church, the Klan is not a church, the Christian Coalition is not a Church, >>> and Aryan Nation is not a church. None of them claim to be a church. >> >>Dear Michelle, >> >>See above. This specific organization, which Ms. Lasher mentions (I >>emphasize above) is a church. > >Yes, she mentioned it, but that's not what we were talking about. We were >talking about the organization called the Aryan Nation, which is something >apart and different from the church she drug in to confuse the issue. > >I'm not as easily confused as you are, it seems. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >| Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | Aloha Michelle -- Not to be too quick in this matter -- The "Aryan Nation," whose hideous pages can be seen by the brave at: http://www.nidlink.com/~aryanvic/jcjew.html firmly and insistently identifies itself as a religion devoted to freeing Christianity from the poisonous influence of Jews and bolsheviks. In their world-view Christ was NOT a Jew and they are the ONLY viable Christian denomination. Some scrapings from their pages -- "We discover the fact in the book of Luke that Mary was of the house of Levi. The house of Levi was not Jew. The house of Levi could never be called Jews by anybody, nor could Judah be called Jewish, nor can you call the other ten tribes Jews by any stretch of the imagination, for they were not identified with the Kingdom of Judah. Jews are trying to identify themselves with the house of Abraham by saying they are Judeans, and that they descended from Judah. They only dwelt in the land of Judea, but they were never citizens of the house of Abraham, nor did they come through Judah." And lots more -- " Now, remember, the Galileans were not jews. You say, prove that. All right, let's turn to the sixth chapter of John. Jesus Christ had twelve disciples. One of them was a Jew; that was Judas Iscariot. All the rest came out of Galilee, out of the household of His selection." With enemies as mad as this how can we lose? Ward ----------------------------------------------------- "The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women ... It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become Lesbians." -- Pat Robertson (1992) ----------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 13:46:35 +0200 Michelle Steiner wrote: > Why is what? That something that is not a church or religion is not a > church or religion? Because it isn't. The Republican Party is not a > church, the Klan is not a church, the Christian Coalition is not a Church, > and Aryan Nation is not a church. None of them claim to be a church. Geezus! Didn't you read *any* of the links on the site that I posted?!?!?!? The Aryan Nation IS a church! ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 09:38:50 -0700 In article <35F3C79B.61A4ED03@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: >> Why is what? That something that is not a church or religion is not a >> church or religion? Because it isn't. The Republican Party is not a >> church, the Klan is not a church, the Christian Coalition is not a Church, >> and Aryan Nation is not a church. None of them claim to be a church. > >Geezus! Didn't you read *any* of the links on the site that I posted?!?!?!? >The Aryan Nation IS a church! Just because the two share the name "Aryan Nation" does not mean that they are the same thing. Life is not that simple, dear, no matter how much you wish it to be. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: sheroux@europa.nospam.com (RavensHeart) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 17:04:41 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 13:46:35 +0200, Nicole Lasher wrote: > > >Michelle Steiner wrote: > >> Why is what? That something that is not a church or religion is not a >> church or religion? Because it isn't. The Republican Party is not a >> church, the Klan is not a church, the Christian Coalition is not a Church, >> and Aryan Nation is not a church. None of them claim to be a church. > >Geezus! Didn't you read *any* of the links on the site that I posted?!?!?!? >The Aryan Nation IS a church! > >~Niki > I've looked at the website. What a nice camouflage: I especially liked this page: We need your help, today! Beautiful property for sale in North Idaho is abundant! Despite that well-known fact one of the wealthiest, most prestigious neighborhoods in the USA is growing up adjacent to and all around, the twenty-acre Aryan Nations HQ in Hayden Lake, Idaho. If one believes the jew-controlled media, that scenario would not be taking place, as they characterize Aryan Nations as the most vile thing on planet Earth. The fact is, this all-White Christian community is growing up around Aryan Nations, for the very reason that Aryan Nations is there. ...that is what we have been told. What am I getting to? A nationwide media campaign, joined by Governor Batt's office, the Idaho Statesman, Coeur d'Alene Press, and Spokesman-Review,have targeted Aryan Nations in a deliberate and systematic blackening and criminal endangerment. We will not pretend that their efforts have not hurt us, because they have. For fear of the jews, many of our (weaker) supporters have cowered and fallen away. On top of that, Aryan Nations taxes have been suddenly raised. On top of that, our non-profit mailing status was revoked. On top of that, your church's tax-exemption was revoked. BolsheviK AmeriKa attacks Christianity! We urgently need your financial help NOW more than ever before! Your twenty-acre church grounds are at stake to the jew bankers and tax-bandits. Even if only $5 or $10, please send something in today.... Now.....you really believe they are a church? Why don't you check out the sites for Rohowa or Crusader to get a better view of this "church". ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:11:54 GMT michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: >In article , joshua geller > wrote: >>michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: >>> In article <35F2F5E2.CF5B7B39@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher >>> wrote: >> >>> >I hate to break this to you, but the Aryan Nation, as opposed to >>> >the American Nazi Party, is indeed based on the Aryan Church, >>> >b.k.a. Church of Jesus Christ Christian-Aryan Nations. >> >>> Even so, it is no more a church than the Christian Coalition is a church. >> >>Why is that, Michelle? >Why is what? That something that is not a church or religion is not a >church or religion? Because it isn't. The Republican Party is not a >church, the Klan is not a church, the Christian Coalition is not a Church, >and Aryan Nation is not a church. None of them claim to be a church. >>You might think that their religious ideas are stupid or evil; if you >>do, I agree with you. But they are as entitled to them as you are to >>yours or I am to mine. Freedom of religion means freedom of religion >>for people that you (or I) disagree with. It's easy to grant freedom >>to people that you like or approve of; somewhat harder to grant >>freedom to people that you hate or despise. >I agree with everything you wrote, but what you wrote has no relation to >what I had written. In that case, you should have crossposted your follow-up to alt.non.sequitur. ___________ | | | POME | |_________| I'm entitled to do a little boasting You've all heard of alt.support.crossposting It was I who created that wonderful group I'm the King of crossposters, and that's no poop! john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry) Grand Duke of Yugoslobia Duke of Vulgaria Grand Muff-Diver of Jerusalem Elector of Homophobia & Baron of Gray Matter ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 02:22:35 +0200 Okay, I'll speak more slowly.... Michelle Steiner wrote: > In article <35F2F5E2.CF5B7B39@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher > wrote: > > >> The Aryan Nation is not a religion; it is simply a hate group, like the > >> Klan, the American Nazi Party, or Operation Rescue. > > > >Oh dear... > >Hon, in a small (but growing) town, in Moscow Idaho, there is a church... > >I hate to break this to you, but the Aryan Nation, as opposed to the American > >Nazi Party, is indeed based on the Aryan Church, b.k.a. Church of Jesus Christ > >Christian-Aryan Nations. > > Even so, it is no more a church than the Christian Coalition is a church. The difference between the Aryan Church and the Christian Coalition is that the Aryan Church is an actual church with buildings and everything. The Christian Coalition is an organization. Aryan Church = A church Christian Coalition = An organization of many churches (but that many churches and xians with half a lick of sense, won't touch with a 10 foot crucifix) > >> It depends on how they go about doing it. The point is that they have a > >> right to express their opinions, no matter how distasteful those opinions > >> might be, so long as they do not incite violence or any other form of law > >> breaking. > > > >Yes, but freedoms of speech isn't isolated to them. It is for us too. If they > >have a right to spew their garbage, we have an equal right to refute it. > > I've never disputed that. > > >Their rights end where our rights begin, and vise versa... > > Not necessarily. Their right to swing their fists ends at our noses, and > vice versa. That is, more simply put, what I said. They have the right to say whatever they want to say on their property...but on my property, it's called harrassment. I don't bother them, so they shouldn't bother me. > >only problem is that they > >seem to have this bad habit of overstepping their boundaries...They DO incite > >violence, and break the law. > > I'm not disputing this either, but the churches themselves do not. Okay, so who do you suppose is responsible for the conduct of the church members when the leaders of their church, essentially, instruct them to kill homosexuals? The church! > Goddess > knows I've gone up agains them enough, and have been physically assaulted > by some of them (when I've been escorting at abortion clinics), and > verbally assaulted as well, in many venues. This is why we have the right to bear arms, and should use it. Armed escorts are physically assaulted much less than unarmed ones. Being a martyr is noble when it's just you, but when someone else's life is in your hands too, maybe it's time to consider purchasing that cute Ladysmith you saw hanging in the shop. > This doesn't mean that the > government has any right to shut down their churches. If these churches are the base of operations for terrorist activity, you bet your booty the government has a right to shut them down. They've certainly done it more than once...They're just selective about which terrorists they choose to shut down. > If the government shuts them down for preaching things that the government > says is not supported by their Bible, then Orthodox Jews can have the > church shut down Reform and conservative Synagogues, or vice versa, or the > Catholics can have the government shut down Protestant churches--etc., > etc., etc. Zeke does have some good points, but this idea of having the > government shutting down churches for violating their own Biblical > teachings is pure idiocy. Sometimes ideas are borne of idiocy. The idea of a trial is a sort of dream...It would be nice to see them try to stand under the scrutiny of their own supposed god. He was saying it would be nice. Do you not agree that it would be nice to see xians' lives compared with their preachings? "...would be nice" is a far cry from "I'm going to work towards..." Learn the difference, and you will, likely, learn more from people you never knew you could learn from. Personally, I would like to see the religious reich's leaders tried on the basis of their constitutional violations...not biblical ones. Now *that* would be a show...I'd be first in line to testify about how well the xians teach their children freedom of speech and freedom of religion ::morbid chuckle:: I see you like to use the Wiccan creed at the end of your posts. Does that only apply when you agree with someone? ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 17:42:21 -0700 In article <35F3274A.122F32B3@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: >The difference between the Aryan Church and the Christian Coalition is that the >Aryan Church is an actual church with buildings and everything. The Christian >Coalition is an organization. >Aryan Church = A church >Christian Coalition = An organization of many churches (but that many churches and >xians with half a lick of sense, won't touch with a 10 foot crucifix) We're not speaking of the Aryan Church. We're speaking of The Aryan Nation. They are not the same. [...] >That is, more simply put, what I said. They have the right to say >whatever they >want to say on their property...but on my property, it's called harrassment. I >don't bother them, so they shouldn't bother me. That doesn't address anything that I wrote. Why do you continue to bring in irrelevant points? >Okay, so who do you suppose is responsible for the conduct of the church >members >when the leaders of their church, essentially, instruct them to kill >homosexuals? >The church! When have church leaders, speaking as church leaders, instructed anyone to kill homosexuals? >> This doesn't mean that the >> government has any right to shut down

MY GAY-RIGHTS CARTOON IS CHARGED WITH COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT! (newsgroup: alt.politics.homosexuality) -- PART 2 OF 4

MY GAY-RIGHTS CARTOON IS CHARGED WITH COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!
(newsgroup: alt.politics.homosexuality) -- PART 2 OF 4