MY GAY-RIGHTS CARTOON IS CHARGED WITH COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!
(newsgroup: alt.politics.homosexuality) -- PART 3 OF 4

======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:27:22 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:36:50 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >If I had the talent, I'd do it. BTW, speaking of gay-friendly comics, have >you ever read the _Doom Patrol_ series by DC comics? I was never interested in that style of comics...as a kid I went for Looney Tunes, then Mad Magazine, then went wild for underground comics of all sorts. >At one point, one of the super heroes in the team was a post-op transsexual >lesbian. Can't get more gay-positive than that. I don't see what any of that has to do with same-sex love. I'd say that person fits easily under the umbrella of "queer"...but certainly not distinctively homosexual. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:42:51 -0700 In article <35f0aaa4.32440422@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >>At one point, one of the super heroes in the team was a post-op transsexual >>lesbian. Can't get more gay-positive than that. > >I don't see what any of that has to do with same-sex love. I'd say >that person fits easily under the umbrella of "queer"...but certainly >not distinctively homosexual. Excuse me? Since when is a lesbian not distinctively homosexual? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:48:02 GMT On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:42:51 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >>>At one point, one of the super heroes in the team was a post-op transsexual >>>lesbian. Can't get more gay-positive than that. >> >>I don't see what any of that has to do with same-sex love. I'd say >>that person fits easily under the umbrella of "queer"...but certainly >>not distinctively homosexual. > >Excuse me? Since when is a lesbian not distinctively homosexual? When you suggest she was originally a man before the implied sex change. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 16:54:36 -0700 In article <35f1bd2f.6458541@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:42:51 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle >Steiner) wrote: > >>>>At one point, one of the super heroes in the team was a post-op transsexual >>>>lesbian. Can't get more gay-positive than that. >>> >>>I don't see what any of that has to do with same-sex love. I'd say >>>that person fits easily under the umbrella of "queer"...but certainly >>>not distinctively homosexual. >> >>Excuse me? Since when is a lesbian not distinctively homosexual? > >When you suggest she was originally a man before the implied sex >change. So the great defender against homophobia is himself transphobic? Any woman, whether she has female genitals from birth or through surgery, who loves women is a lesbian (unless she also loves men, in which case she's bisexual). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 18:45:16 +0200 Michelle Steiner wrote: > So the great defender against homophobia is himself transphobic? Oh please! You're really reaching here, aren't you? > Any woman, whether she has female genitals from birth or through surgery, > who loves women is a lesbian (unless she also loves men, in which case > she's bisexual). So how do you explain intersexual peoples' use of the abbreviations TW and GW? Could it possibly be because even some of them prefer some sort of distinction? Why do people assume that everyone wants to "normalize" or assimilate in order to be accepted, or considered equal? ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 09:52:58 -0700 In article <35F2BC1B.64AE9F94@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: >> So the great defender against homophobia is himself transphobic? > >Oh please! You're really reaching here, aren't you? Not at all, oh great defender of the Great Prophet Zeke! >> Any woman, whether she has female genitals from birth or through surgery, >> who loves women is a lesbian (unless she also loves men, in which case >> she's bisexual). > >So how do you explain intersexual peoples' use of the abbreviations TW and GW? I don't, because it is irrelevant. >Could it possibly be because even some of them prefer some sort of distinction? Could it possibly be that this has nothing to do with what I wrote? >Why do people assume that everyone wants to "normalize" or assimilate in >order to be accepted, or considered equal? Why do you drag in irrelevant questions to distract attention from Zeke's bigotries? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:03:56 GMT On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 09:52:58 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >Why do you drag in irrelevant questions to distract attention from Zeke's >bigotries? Your remarks are intentionally manipulative, and do not arise from any considirable intellect. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 15:58:59 -0700 In article <35f30647.15450915@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 09:52:58 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle >Steiner) wrote: > >>Why do you drag in irrelevant questions to distract attention from Zeke's >>bigotries? > >Your remarks are intentionally manipulative, and do not arise from any >considirable intellect. You're projecting again. You have demostrated transpohobia, and you and your apologist are not going to obfuscate that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:24:16 +0200 Michelle Steiner wrote: > You're projecting again. You have demostrated transpohobia, and you and > your apologist are not going to obfuscate that. No, Michelle, YOU twisted Ezekiel's saying that HE DIDN'T KNOW if a particular cartoon character who was a biological male who is mentally female and lesbian, has a sex change operation, was technically homosexual in the first place, but may fit into the category of "queer". That would, of course, depend on the individual, but since he wasn't totally sure of the individual, he could not say. YOU took it to be transphobic because you wanted to...not because of what was actually said. ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 09:36:10 -0700 In article <35F3D070.2F4B7500@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: >Michelle Steiner wrote: > >> You're projecting again. You have demostrated transpohobia, and you and >> your apologist are not going to obfuscate that. > >No, Michelle, YOU twisted Ezekiel's saying that HE DIDN'T KNOW if a particular >cartoon character who was a biological male who is mentally female and lesbian, >has a sex change operation, was technically homosexual in the first place, but >may fit into the category of "queer". No, he didn't say that. He denied that she's lesbian. >hat would, of course, depend on the >individual, but since he wasn't totally sure of the individual, he could not >say. Any woman who loves women can deny that she's a lesbian. In this specific case, the character does not deny that she's a lesbian, as can easily be inferred from the description I provided of her. >YOU took it to be transphobic because you wanted to...not because of what was >actually said. On the contrary, YOU deny that it is transphobic because you will support Zeke completely, without reservation, regardless of what he says. You're nothing more than his shrill shill. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:09:30 +0200 Michelle Steiner wrote: > On the contrary, YOU deny that it is transphobic because you will support > Zeke completely, without reservation, regardless of what he says. You're > nothing more than his shrill shill. Oh, this is comical. It is now quite clear to me what your purpose has been in this thread...not to educate anyone else, and certainly not to educate or enhance yourself through knowledgeable debate and discourse. It has been, simply, to carry on some sort of bizarre cyber-bitch-fight with Ezekiel from a safe distance. Excuse me, please, for interrupting. Watch the virtual hand ::giggle:: ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:28:04 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:09:30 +0200, Nicole Lasher wrote: >Oh, this is comical. Isn't it? I'm highly entertained! >It is now quite clear to me what your purpose has been in this thread...not to >educate anyone else, and certainly not to educate or enhance yourself through >knowledgeable debate and discourse. Too, too true. >It has been, simply, to carry on some sort of bizarre cyber-bitch-fight with Ezekiel >from a safe distance. But I don't take it personally. *Anyone with a progressive agenda would be treated likewise. These assimilationist queers are barely a dozen...but they are quite copious in their articles, hence sort of "own" the gay groups. My presence is a force to stand for the evenutal arrival of more progressive and radical types...to be at least one person who *welcomes them, instead of villifies them. The jaded queer elite, is a clique that has de-democratized the gay newsgroups. And if you resist them long enough, they go into a real snit, and begin accusing you of spamming, and send their complaints to your ISP! This has happened to me already, once, last year! It has happened again, a few weeks ago...but my ISP apologized, after I suggested they look into the matter themselves...so after seeing the threads in which I was involved, they realized their error in belief the accusations against me. >Excuse me, please, for interrupting. Watch the virtual hand ::giggle:: Yes, we may as well have some chuckles over this. Meanwhile, we should contribute to the liberalizing of gay newsgroups, by making our presence known, and by starting threads of a more radical/liberal nature in these groups, on a regular basis. Not that there aren't already several other progressive thinkers in these groups...we are still outnumbered by the status quo, het butt-licking assimilationists. I am here to dismantle the queer power elite, among other things. Good grief, Charlie Brown-nose! --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:47:58 -0700 In article <35F42F69.8968A875@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: > > >Michelle Steiner wrote: > >> On the contrary, YOU deny that it is transphobic because you will support >> Zeke completely, without reservation, regardless of what he says. You're >> nothing more than his shrill shill. > >Oh, this is comical. >It is now quite clear to me what your purpose has been in this thread...not to >educate anyone else, and certainly not to educate or enhance yourself through >knowledgeable debate and discourse. >It has been, simply, to carry on some sort of bizarre cyber-bitch-fight with >Ezekiel from a safe distance. It is clear to you only because you see yourself in others, and can't imagine them having motivations other than your own. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:48:21 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:47:58 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >It is clear to you only because you see yourself in others, and can't >imagine them having motivations other than your own. Thank you Dr. Michelle; hallelujah, I am healed! --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:27:56 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:24:16 +0200, Nicole Lasher wrote: >YOU took it to be transphobic because you wanted to...not because of what was >actually said. Michelle leaps before she looks! --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:59:59 GMT michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: >In article <35f30647.15450915@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, >ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >>On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 09:52:58 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle >>Steiner) wrote: >> >>>Why do you drag in irrelevant questions to distract attention from Zeke's >>>bigotries? >> >>Your remarks are intentionally manipulative, and do not arise from any >>considirable intellect. >You're projecting again. You have demostrated transpohobia, and you and >your apologist are not going to obfuscate that. In addition to homophobia, I have demonstrated pyroshmaltzphobia (fear of burning chidken-fat). john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry) ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) Date: 3 Sep 1998 09:54:08 -0500 In article <35EDCA1E.4E6ABAFE@earthlink.net>, ciaopubs@earthlink.net wrote: > Bill Lindemann wrote: > > > > If you want to hack a cartoonist, at least pick one with a demonstrated > > history of either active or passive homophobia. My suggestions are "B.C." > > and "Family Circus". Hmm... If you still want to be in-your-face, how > > about penning a takeoff called "Family Jerkoff"? > > It's been done. There were a half-dozen "Dysfunctional Family Circus" mini-comics > done several years ago. Hilarious stuff, better than South Park, which they came > before. They were stopped because the parodist eventually met Keane and decided > that the guy was too nice. They were not stopped: The Dysfunctional Family Circus http://www.spinnwebe.com/dfc/ -- Mike Silverman -- cubsfan at turnleft.com -- Lawrence, KS http://www.turnleft.com/personal ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:54:27 GMT On 3 Sep 1998 09:54:08 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote: >They were not stopped: > >The Dysfunctional Family Circus >http://www.spinnwebe.com/dfc/ And the "Daddy" even has a big, bright pink triangle on his shirt! Way to go! Thanks for finding this site, Mike. I have posted the author the following: ---begin post Hello, great stuff, your parody of Family Circus. I am presently being challenged by Charles Schulz's lawyers, for doing a gay parody on Peanuts. Perhaps you can lend some insight, to help me with my case? One thing I'd like to know is: do you parody Family Circus without their specific approval? I would think you don't have to...however, perhaps you chose to anyway. Rather than exhaust you with a lengthy message...you can acquaint yourself with my Peanuts issue, by going to the following web page: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm or its mirror: http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm There, you will see the image in question, as well as daily updates of all relevent information on this matter. ---end post --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with the "Peenuts" copyright issue: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 05:29:54 GMT On Tue, 01 Sep 1998 12:32:15 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester wrote: >Prove to me that this is "anti-gay" or anti-anything except conformity and >I will eat the book I got it from. Then why, after all his years of popularity and covering so many social issues...did he leave out any aspect about gays? The only reason I can see, is the pressure of society's homophobia...which weighs heavily on all of us. --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 23:40:01 -0700 ]]Then why, after all his years of popularity and covering so many social issues...did he leave out any aspect about gays? The only reason I can see, is the pressure of society's homophobia...which weighs heavily on all of us.>> Mr Krahlin: It is of no use trying to actually communicate with you. You have completely missed the point of my argument. You have an agenda. If anyone disagrees or differs, he/she is the enemy. As someone with many close heterosexual friends & family, I find the hatefulness of your website offensive & antagonizing, to say the least. "GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com" is a sentiment that the ancient Greek forebears you praise on your site would unquestionably disown. It is unfortunate that you have had experiences in your life which have led you to this level of prejudice. I have nothing further to say to you. Frank Martinez Lester ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 08:28:31 GMT On Tue, 01 Sep 1998 23:40:01 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester wrote: >It is of no use trying to actually communicate with you. Because you really don't want to. >You have completely missed the point of my argument. I doubt that. I just disagree. >You have an agenda. For more aggressive civil dissent. >If anyone disagrees or differs, he/she is the enemy. Nope. Depends on what the disagreement is all about. I take each case on an individual level. >As someone with many close heterosexual friends & family, I find the >hatefulness of your website offensive & antagonizing, to say the least. Hatred is in the mind of the beholder. Citizen, heal thyself! >"GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com" is a sentiment that the ancient Greek >forebears you praise on your site would unquestionably disown. Sorry, you lose. What do you think of Rev. Fred Phelps' site known as "GodHatesFaggots.com"? I am only giving our arrogant heteros a little taste of what kind of blasphemy is poured upon us gays every moment of every day of our lives. What's the matter, can't take it? So what, if some innocent-bystander gay-friendly heteros get caught in the fray? *All of us gays are under constant hateful attacks...and aren't we all innocent? What did we do to be so hated? It's only fair that more heteros, who consider themselves gay friendly, have some of this bitter taste in their own mouths...and then, perhaps, just perhaps, they will lift a finger to fight with us. It's not enough just to be "gay friendly", and pat yourself on the back for saying so. Where's the real action behind that claim? Seems that 9 out of every 10 hets who call themselves gay friendly, haven't done one single thing to contribute to gay rights...whether in money or elbow grease. They are snakes in the grass. >It is unfortunate that you have had experiences in your life which have led you >to this level of prejudice. Far more unfortunate is the awesome homophobia that rips apart our society! This level of prejudice you claim I possess, is like less than 1% of the level of homophobia by your average het. I believe that returning just that little amount of nastiness will go far in bringing us our freedom. It is wrong, even treasonous, for gays like you to be so unquestionably accommodating to heteros. It must end, or we will be buried. Don't you see what is being done to us? The anti-gay ad in San Francisco, DOMA? This is the result of the mass of heteros who are not part of the religious right...and many who regard themselves as "progressive". Can you really blame all this sanction against us as soley a religious right attack? >I have nothing further to say to you. If you wish. You are always welcome to change your mind. After all, this is a terrorist...er, free, country! (And I'm sure Mr. Schulz would agree with you.) --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: kilpatri@sgi.duh.com Date: 2 Sep 1998 11:11:13 GMT ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) writes: >Sorry, you lose. What do you think of Rev. Fred Phelps' site known as >"GodHatesFaggots.com"? I am only giving our arrogant heteros a little >taste of what kind of blasphemy is poured upon us gays every moment of >every day of our lives. Hatred is evil, no matter what side you're on. You're just as evil as he is. A black racist is less wrong than a white one. Hating someone for their sexual preference is wrong, no matter what that preference may be. All you've done is prove that you're as much of a wacko nutball as Phelps. And that's quite an achievement. -- John A. Kilpatrick Systems/Network Administrator kilpatri@sgi.com Silicon Graphics Inc., Team TREX http://reality.sgi.com/kilpatri/ (650) 933-4387 "Kick! Punch! It's all in the mind..." ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 15:26:37 +0300 kilpatri@sgi.duh.com wrote: > ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) writes: > > >Sorry, you lose. What do you think of Rev. Fred Phelps' site known as > >"GodHatesFaggots.com"? I am only giving our arrogant heteros a little > >taste of what kind of blasphemy is poured upon us gays every moment of > >every day of our lives. > > Hatred is evil, no matter what side you're on. This is where your opinion and mine differ, and probably why you have a problem relating to Ezekiel. Since it's my job, or my future job, to mediate such situations, I guess I'll start practicing now....So here goes. Justified hatred is not evil. Some people have done things for which they deserve much hatred indeed. It is not a good idea to generalize a whole group of people...So perhaps what you percieve to be his generalization of hetrosexuals is not a good thing, but his expression of hatred for homophobes most certainly is constructive for him. It is better that he express his feelings, feelings that some others share, than to keep them pent up. Also, it is good for him to be human...It keeps those of us who agree with much of what he says aware that he is not a god, and keeps us thinking for ourselves. I don't agree with everything Ezekiel says, but I do agree with his self-preservation, self-defense, and strategic offense, ideas. If he hates heterosexuals (which he doesn't, that I can tell, because I can see the difference between a genuine insult, and a prod) then that is because of his experiences. I would never presume to deny him the validity and value of his experiences. > You're just as evil as he > is. A black racist is less wrong than a white one. I think you were trying to say a Black racist is no less wrong than a White one, and in that case, you'd be wrong to. Let's take the case of Angela Davis vs. the case of Ronald Regan. They lived in some of the same areas around the same times... It is doubtful that Ronald Regan has ever been pelted with jars full of piss by Black men driving by...and yet Ronald Regan is racist. Most of his experiences with Blacks during his formative years left him, likely, either indifferent, or with some physical need met...like his clothes laundered, or his belly filled...And yet, he is racist. Angela Davis's experiences with Whites were not exactly great...Her hatred for Whites is not like Ronald Regan's hatred for Blacks. Hers is the same as the lion's hate for a hyena...The hyenas will consume anything in their path, and though, probably not intending to be "evil" have a certain nature and culture...They steal food the lions catch, and will even take a cub or a grown lion if there are enough of them. It is for this reason that the lion kills hyena, but never eats them. They quite literally, hate hyena...Hate is natural. What we do with hate is what makes the difference. Just as lions have never purposefully set out to kill or enslave every hyena on the planet, Blacks are unlikely to want to do this to Whites. The hyena is also, unlikely to ever set out to do this to lions...So they hate each other, but they know the difference between dislike and dwelling on hatred. Only problem is that people are not two different competitive species' like lions and hyenas...That makes both Regan's and Davis's hate counterporductive for humanity, but constructive, possibly, for themselves. It is not the ideal...it is the reality. When someone is hurt, they remember, and they naturally seek vengeance. When someone who has not been hurt feels threatened, they will do anything they can to preserve the systems that keep them in power, for fear of reciprocation of the pain they have caused directly or indirectly. Understanding this, and understanding that people have faults, fears, and insecurities, one must also understand that those faults do not negate the virtues that person may have. In a nutshell, accept that the most radical and powerful forces for the gay rights movement, will be just a tad biased. Just as with anything or anyone else, take the good you can get from it, and scrap the rest. Support the causes you like, and don't support the ones you don't. I have noticed that a good deal of time is spent talking shit about Ezekiel, but little time is spent talking about the good things he has to say, and the fact that some of us think it's high time to stop asking for things from "the man" and start voting when we should, and shooting when we must. > Hating someone for their sexual preference is wrong, no matter what > that preference may be. Hating someone simply for their color is wrong too, but you have to know the difference between "hate" and "initial mistrust" (also known as "prejudice") Prejudice is natural, as is hate, but there is a difference between prejudice and racism or sexism. Vanilla-heterocentrics have hurt many of us terribly, and there is nothing wrong with being wary of people until you know that they are not out to hurt you. That's intelligence, and learning from one's experiences...not hate. > All you've done is prove that you're as much > of a wacko nutball as Phelps. And that's quite an achievement. Perhaps, but there have been many "whackos" whose philosophies have bettered the world. Instead of talking shit, you should be taking notes. Take what's good for you, discard the rest. ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 11:10:54 -0700 [[I have noticed that a good deal of time is spent talking shit about Ezekiel, but little time is spent talking about the good things he has to say, and the fact that some of us think it's high time to stop asking for things from "the man" and start voting when we should, and shooting when we must.>> I think hatred is hatred, period. I do not spend my time making distinctions between hatred justified by the pain of past experience & plain ignorant-assed heterosexual hatred. I have had plenty of hateful experiences in my life. Nonetheless, I do not post web pages stating that "breeders must die." I don't think that calling Ezekiel Krahlin on his message is "talking shit." And "shooting when we must"? What's that about? [[Perhaps, but there have been many "whackos" whose philosophies have bettered the world. Instead of talking shit, you should be taking notes. Take what's good for you, discard the rest.>> None of it is good for me. Hatred is never good. Therefore, I discard it in its entirety. I take no notes. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 21:41:23 GMT On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 11:10:54 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester wrote: >I think hatred is hatred, period. Simple solutions for simple minds. --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 16:04:12 -0700 [[Simple solutions for simple minds.>> Let's see. I think I'll start a new Gay Liberation Movement. I'll put up a website insulting & condemning heterosexuals & calling gays & lesbians who disagree with me "traitors." I'll compare myself to Jonathan Swift & figures of ancient Greek history a lot. And I'll insult, degrade, & alienate anyone who might be sympathetic to my cause. I bet I'll really get a hell of a lot of converts. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:08:53 GMT On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 16:04:12 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester wrote: >And I'll insult, degrade, & alienate anyone who might be sympathetic to >my cause. Have fun! --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 11:54:44 -0700 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 11:10:54 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester > wrote: > > >I think hatred is hatred, period. > > Simple solutions for simple minds. Oh, please. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:54:48 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 11:54:44 -0700, Jeffrey Croft wrote: >> Simple solutions for simple minds. > >Oh, please. With sugar substitute on top (gotta watch that waistline)! --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with the "Peenuts" copyright issue: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:36:12 GMT On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 15:26:37 +0300, Nicole Lasher wrote: >This is where your opinion and mine differ, and probably why you have a >problem relating to Ezekiel. Since it's my job, or my future job, to mediate >such situations, I guess I'll start practicing now....So here goes. Most of these people who attack me, seem to have a right-wing agenda. Just because they're gay, is no excuse to pardon them. In fact, it's treason. >It is better that he express his feelings, feelings that some others share, >than to keep them pent up. Also, it is good for him to be human...It keeps >those of us who agree with much of what he says aware that he is not a god, >and keeps us thinking for ourselves. I'd go nuts, if I repressed all this horrible hatred society dumps on me for being gay. It's not like I can walk away from it. The recent anti-gay ad in the S.F. Examiner has me *really pissed off...and now, this situation with Schulz. Well, I am more than ready to duke it out. And no, I'm not god. But I am one of the voices of justice. I am driven by my visions. Yes, I do see and communicate with angelic forces, or whatever else you want to call them: imaginary playmates, dreams, subconscious messages, whatever. And I will speak of this matter in greater length and more often, as time passes, and as I gain a wider audience in the gay community. I am here, among other things, to strengthen the troops, and empower as many as I can. You may consider me as a sergeant drilling the grunts...I'll make men of them all...or they'll run away whimpering, to cower in some dark shameful corner. >I don't agree with everything Ezekiel says, but I do agree with his >self-preservation, self-defense, and strategic offense, ideas. It is vitally important that gays work really hard on bridging our differences, regardless of disagreements on basic issues. However, I don't see how right-wing queers can ever bridge this ideological gap...thus I predict a schism in the gay community really soon...similar to what happened to the Catholic Church many centuries ago. >If he hates heterosexuals (which he doesn't, that I can tell, because I can see the >difference between a genuine insult, and a prod) then that is because of his >experiences. I would never presume to deny him the validity and value of his >experiences. I do have some hetero friends and acquaintances who are very supportive of my stance, and have no problem with it. But these are true progressive people who understand free speech and human liberty. They are definitely *not right-wing, nor do they degrad people who are classified as disabled or poor. Unlike *some participants in this newsgroup. >Angela Davis's experiences with Whites were not exactly great...Her hatred >for Whites is not like Ronald Regan's hatred for Blacks. Hers is the same as >the lion's hate for a hyena... I appreciate your excellent analysis of my situation, ~Niki. And you have done a fine job of stating where I stand. I cannot see in incorrect assumption of my attitudes, in your diagnosis. >When someone is hurt, they remember, and they naturally seek vengeance. And in the case of gays, we are hurt over and over again, many times each day. I refuse to live out the rest of my life in silent anger. I will speak the truth in the streets, on the Internet, from the rooftops, in the court room, and everywhere else I may happen to be, or forced to be. >Understanding this, and understanding that people have faults, fears, and >insecurities, one must also understand that those faults do not negate the >virtues that person may have. Thank you. Very astute. Unfortunately, I'm afraid your hard-earned wisdom will fall mostly on deaf ears. But maybe someone will benefit, even if we don't know who. And for that reason alone, if no other, you have done a good thing. You are a healer, and a modern-day shaman. >I have noticed that a good deal of time is spent talking shit about Ezekiel, >but little time is spent talking about the good things he has to say, One person who attacke me last year, has come around to regarding me as an individual, and acknowledging my good contributions. So it does pay to stick to your guns, and believe in yourself, your ideals, and your ability to have influence. >Perhaps, but there have been many "whackos" whose philosophies have bettered >the world. Instead of talking shit, you should be taking notes. I may be crazy, but I'm *good crazy. >Take what's good for you, discard the rest. I'm good for whatever ails you, To remove whatever impales you. I do everything I possibly can: I'm a medicine man with a positive plan. --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: kilpatri@sgi.duh.com Date: 2 Sep 1998 19:47:12 GMT ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) writes: >I'd go nuts, if I repressed all this horrible hatred society dumps on >me for being gay. It's not like I can walk away from it. The recent >anti-gay ad in the S.F. Examiner has me *really pissed off...and now, >this situation with Schulz. Well, I am more than ready to duke it out. Someone dumps a load of shit on you. But *YOU* have to decide if you're going to pick it up and carry it. Maybe you were the most popular guy in school and didn't have people picking on you, but I long ago decided that society can KISS MY ASS. The only things that get me annoyed are legal obstacles - those have to be removed. Otherwise, I'll just be me and anyone who has a problem with it can adress that brick wall over there. This attitude was not formed in response to society's feelings about gays, but rather in response to how some of the people I went to high school with were at the time (they've mellowed :-). However, it has carried over remarkably well... >It is vitally important that gays work really hard on bridging our >differences, regardless of disagreements on basic issues. Why? To do that, I must make being gay the #1 issue in my life. It's not. I am not consumed by my sexuality. And I cannot, in good conscience, align myself with someone who I fundamentally disagree with - I would have to compromise some more important values. >However, I >don't see how right-wing queers can ever bridge this ideological >gap...thus I predict a schism in the gay community really >soon...similar to what happened to the Catholic Church many centuries >ago. It is not so black and white. It's not all 'right wing' and 'left wing'. Like many of the heteros, a lot of gays are middle of the road. Yes, I will work and support people trying to promote gay marriage, but I won't support someone going around saying 'Got Hates Hets'. There's left wing, and then there's radical militant left wing. I'm definetly left of center, but not as far as you seem to be. >I refuse to live out the rest of my life in silent anger. I >will speak the truth in the streets, on the Internet, from the >rooftops, in the court room, and everywhere else I may happen to be, >or forced to be. That's fine. Speak your mind. But in this great country, with the excellent concept of free speech, be prepared to take shit for it. Or you could choose to not get angry.... >I may be crazy, but I'm *good crazy. Forgive the comparision, but it almost seems like you're like Puck from the third season of the Real World. Puck on 5 or 6 was fine. Puck on 10 got thrown out of the house. -- John A. Kilpatrick Systems/Network Administrator kilpatri@sgi.com Silicon Graphics Inc., Team TREX http://reality.sgi.com/kilpatri/ (650) 933-4387 "Kick! Punch! It's all in the mind..." ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:45:02 GMT On 2 Sep 1998 19:47:12 GMT, kilpatri@sgi.duh.com wrote: >ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) writes: > >>I'd go nuts, if I repressed all this horrible hatred society dumps on >>me for being gay. It's not like I can walk away from it. The recent >>anti-gay ad in the S.F. Examiner has me *really pissed off...and now, >>this situation with Schulz. Well, I am more than ready to duke it out. It becomes increasingly apparent that you have GONE nuts. "I'd go nuts" indeed! ward "A woman must learn in silence and be completely submissive. I do not permit a woman to act as teacher or in any way to have authority over a man; she must be quiet." --St. Paul instructing Timothy, 1Tim2:11f. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: kilpatri@sgi.duh.com Date: 2 Sep 1998 19:32:19 GMT Nicole Lasher writes: >It is not a good idea to generalize a whole group of people...So perhaps what >you percieve to be his generalization of hetrosexuals is not a good thing, >but his expression of hatred for homophobes most certainly is constructive >for him. Maybe it is, but as you say, he does not distinguish between homophobes and and other heterosexuals, and that is where he is as wrong as Phelps. For example, I could understand a white person being aprehensive about African-American people if he or she had been carjacked by a gang member. But to take that and start throwing the 'n' word around takes it too far. >I would never presume to deny him the validity and value of his >experiences. So the aforementioned carjacking victem is o.k. in hating blacks, and assuming that all black youths are bangers? What about if that person starts actively promoting hatred for blacks? >I have noticed that a good deal of time is spent talking shit about Ezekiel, >but little time is spent talking about the good things he has to say, and the >fact that some of us think it's high time to stop asking for things from "the >man" and start voting when we should, and shooting when we must. That's fine. Feel that way. I personally think that it's wrong. And such militant homosexuality affects me in a way I percieve as negative, and so I resent it. If he wishes to make clear that he speaks for himself, that's fine. But when such people presume to speak for the 'gay community', then it reflects on me and makes my life harder. Just like your average Pakistani muslim doesn't want to be represented by Osama Bin Ladin, I don't want to be represented by someone who says that God hates straights. >Vanilla-heterocentrics have hurt many of us terribly, >and there is nothing wrong with being wary of people until you know that they >are not out to hurt you. That's intelligence, and learning from one's >experiences...not hate. And saying that 'God Hates Hets' and such isn't being wary, it's being actively negative. >Perhaps, but there have been many "whackos" whose philosophies have bettered >the world. Can you name a 'wacko' who, by promoting hatred of a group as large as one based on sexual preference, did some good? I'm honestly curious. -- John A. Kilpatrick Systems/Network Administrator kilpatri@sgi.com Silicon Graphics Inc., Team TREX http://reality.sgi.com/kilpatri/ (650) 933-4387 "Kick! Punch! It's all in the mind..." ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:44:53 GMT On 2 Sep 1998 19:32:19 GMT, kilpatri@sgi.duh.com wrote: >Nicole Lasher writes: > >>It is not a good idea to generalize a whole group of people...So perhaps what >>you percieve to be his generalization of hetrosexuals is not a good thing, >>but his expression of hatred for homophobes most certainly is constructive >>for him. NO, IT IS NOT! He has no focus on actual homophobes and places all who are not ready to march off into cloud coo coo land with him as "traitors turncoats and enemies" This sort of irrational crap feeds DIRECTLY into the likes of Rob Arch Ward, the Phelpses and the general enemy -- THEY are convinced that we are making irrational and unreasonable demands on them -- they have only to read a few lines of this nutty stuff to have their prejudices very nicely reenforced He may be walking out in front of the parade but the lettering on his placard is gibberish. ward ------------------- > >That's fine. Feel that way. I personally think that it's wrong. And >such militant homosexuality affects me in a way I percieve as negative, Perhaps an error here -- his is not "militant homosexuality", but rather flamboyant folly. Sound and fury signifying nothing! ward "A woman must learn in silence and be completely submissive. I do not permit a woman to act as teacher or in any way to have authority over a man; she must be quiet." --St. Paul instructing Timothy, 1Tim2:11f. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 12:41:44 +0300 Ward Stewart wrote: He has no focus on actual homophobes and places all > who are not ready to march off into cloud coo coo land with him as > "traitors turncoats and enemies" Not all, Ward...Just you and a few other people. If you will pass judgment on his perspective, then let's stick to the facts. Here's rational for you: More than just gay males and lesbians support his site. In fact, there is a bisexual site linked with flashy banners, to Ezekiel's site...A site that contains a report that says that sexual orientation is fluid. This is something that Ezekiel doesn't agree with, and yet, he links to their site...and he doesn't call them traitors... Nor does he think of me as a traitor even though he knows we differ on a few things... This is proof that he does indeed support and give more voice to different and/or opposing opinions...Which is certainly more than can be said for yourself, Ward. The truth is, likely, that you don't really know Ezekiel well at all...You just take what triggers your insecurities from a few posts here and there, and go off on a P.C. tangent. You also, apparently, have not explored his site, and have made assumptions based on a shadowy surface scan that didn't, apparently, take you to one of the most prominently displayed sites there. Ezekiel is loud and proud, and yes, sometimes inflammatory. And yes, he seems to believe that if you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem...but how does that differ from any other effective activist that you know of? How many activists do you know of who say, "Oh, it's okay if you just sit on your duff on election day...we don't mind...and oh, don't worry about defending yourself or speaking out...We'll take care of that for you...You just sit on your hiney, and let "us" take care of everything..." No, They say "Get off your ass and DO something!" and then, they tell you why it needs to be done. Ezekiels reasons for activism are, of course, going to differ from yours or mine...but do they take away from the fact that *something* needs to be done? Is he wrong for bringing up possible ideas for handling the situation, some feasible, some not so feasible? > This sort of irrational crap feeds > DIRECTLY into the likes of Rob Arch Ward, the Phelpses and the general > enemy -- Does every idea that anyone presents have to be measured by YOUR standards of "rationality"? > THEY are convinced that we are making irrational and > unreasonable demands on them -- they have only to read a few lines of > this nutty stuff to have their prejudices very nicely reenforced Oh, they don't need Ezekiel to do that. And as I said awhile ago...They should be scared. They should be as afraid to call a Gay person a derogatory name to their face as they are to call a Black person a derogatory name to their face. Fortunately, because of people like Ezekiel, this is becoming the case. Homophobes should be the ones driven underground...not us. > He may be walking out in front of the parade but the lettering on his > placard is gibberish. > > ward Perhaps gibberish to you because you don't understand it? When someone is speaking another language that you don't understand, it sounds like gibberish, but it does have a meaning if you take the time to learn the language. Ezekiel speaks a different language than you, and despite his best attempts at interpreting, you still refuse to understand. A person from a warrior culture cannot possibly explain the value of their perspective to one from a pacifistic culture until the pacifist has an experience that teaches them the value of fighting. You must realize that it is not the threat of being seen as a bad person that keeps most homophobes from physical violence towards homosexuals. It is the threat of police action or retaliation. There is still much gay-bashing because homophobes in many areas are not afraid of police action or retaliation...and in those places, it gets worse by the day, not better, until awareness is raised, and people get angry enough to demand more from their lawmakers and law enforcement, and of themselves. There is a difference between what is ideal and what is real. The ideal would be to concentrate solely on education as a means of change. But with that education must come empowerment, both mental and physical. Education without empowerment is about as useful as empowerment without education. Why do you have such a problem with the empowerment part? Are you afraid that if you used your right to bear arms, and were as vocal about self-defense as you were about the gay rights hypotheticals, that people would be afraid of you, or do you fear your own potential? Okay, maybe those questions are too deep...but I'll explain in another way... Sometimes it is better to see things from the outside to gain a better perspective. Let's take, for example, the arguments between today's "feminists". There is one school of thought among feminists that women should concentrate solely on education and legislation as a means for change. There is another school of thought that believes physical training for self-defense, combat, and/or firearms should be added to that. One side believes we should not have to be able to physically defend ourselves, or physically defend other women who are not capable of doing so for themselves, as a matter of principle and ideal. They take this idealistic principle and call women who do believe in physical enforcement of equality, "traitors who are undoing all the good that we've done, yadda yadda yadda". The other side calls the legalists, "traitors who think that they should depend on the male majority law enforcement to do what we should be doing for ourselves, yadda yadda yadda." Truth is that both sides have value. When a law needs to be changed or passed, it is the legalists who write them out, and provide the rallying cries, and organize the non-violent protests. When stuff gets out of hand because the sexist/heterocentric/homophobic males suddenly find themselves threatened, and take it out on their nearest female, who is usually a spouse, lover, or relative, it is the warrior women who run the shelters, do security there, or provide private, armed security to friends and neighbors who have been abused, who cash the checks that the legalists wrote. In case you haven't noticed, a good deal of attacks on women have been countered with self-defense. The reasons for the attacks vary, but MANY times it is because the woman is assumed to be a lesbian...and a sexist/heterocentric/homophobe sees a woman as an easier target than a man. Though the average woman may not have the same upper body strength level as the average man, with training, the majority of women could be better fighters and shooters than the average man...but alas, the majority of women have actually fallen for the belief that a woman shouldn't have to be strong to survive...that it's the police's and other men's jobs to enforce our freedoms. So we are still being assaulted and killed in ever-increasing numbers. Now do you see the reason Ezekiel is angry? He is on the warrior side, and was called a traitor...So now he is calling you and a few others, traitors back. You turned your back on him, so he is turning his back on you...To me, that is the saddest part of all of this. The warriors and the administrators will always disagree, because they are standing at different ends of the battle. The disagreement, however, doesn't have to turn into alienation unless you want it to. If you feel alienated, it is not because Ezekiel is rejecting you out of the clear blue...It is because you rejected him first. You never gave him a chance, and focused on the petty issues of perception, rather than the bigger issues of reality. Instead of joining with him as one of the representatives of the warrior minded of the community, making clear that you disagreed with some parts, but working on constructive ways of handling the problem of violent homophobia; you attacked him. Being a warrior, he doesn't take these things lightly, and so he attacked back. It would be comical, were there not so much at stake. It reminds me of something I heard of a Klansman saying...that they don't have to kill Blacks anymore because we kill each other, and as long as they can keep us divided, we do their job for them. I'd say, from watching you and your few cohorts go after Ezekiel, that the RR was doing quite well at keeping us divided. I suggest that we all stop arguing about this sort of pettiness, and start actually having real discussions instead of hypothetical pissing contests. Let's tackle the realities, and then worry about the philosophies. Let the administrative types be administrative types without trying to negate the value of the warriors...and let the warriors be warriors without trying to negate the value of the administrators. Let's see if we can fit into our roles without degrading one another. As it stands, we can't afford to waste anyone...not even the pacifists ::grin:: ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:28:38 -0700 [[It reminds me of something I heard of a Klansman saying...that they don't have to kill Blacks anymore because we kill each other, and as long as they can keep us divided, we do their job for them.>> Nicole, I totally agree. But I also think that hatred, of the kind that Mr Krahlin clearly & unambiguously promotes on his site (and I have not just done a "surface scan" of it), is unconscionable, whether it is in the guise of "activism" or not. I do not think that his site is going to rally more activists to the Warrior Cause. It is just going to piss people off, alienate them, & how is THAT "tackling the realities"? Answer me that. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:55:42 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:28:38 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester wrote: >Nicole, I totally agree. Untrue. If you totally agree, then you'd regard my website as valuable to the gay cause...which you don't. >But I also think that hatred, of the kind that Mr Krahlin >clearly & unambiguously promotes on his site (and I have not just done a "surface scan" >of it), is unconscionable, whether it is in the guise of "activism" or not. Well...if hatred to you is righteous rage, there's not much that can be done! I am looking for relfective minds, not concrete ones. >I do not think that his site is going to rally more activists to the Warrior Cause. We'll see, we'll see. We'll see, as soon as the Schulz hits the fan! >is just going to piss people off, alienate them, & how is THAT "tackling the >realities"? Answer me that. Have you had your latest feeding from Mama's nipple before you composed your message? Answer me that. --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with the "Peenuts" copyright issue: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 18:52:15 +0200 Dan Berkes wrote: > And why does this sound exactly like something I read on Fred Phelp's website? Perhaps it is because you are blind in more ways than one. ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:04:03 GMT On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 18:52:15 +0200, Nicole Lasher wrote: >> And why does this sound exactly like something I read on Fred Phelp's website? > >Perhaps it is because you are blind in more ways than one. I would have to agree. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: danberkes@hotmail.com (Dan Berkes) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 12:50:56 -0800 In article <35f3067a.15501884@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: > On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 18:52:15 +0200, Nicole Lasher > wrote: > > >> And why does this sound exactly like something I read on Fred Phelp's website? > > > >Perhaps it is because you are blind in more ways than one. Perhaps it's because the comparison is a wee bit uncomfortable for certain folks during the heat of debate? From my viewpoint, I compare two extremists who both think that their attacks and methods are justified, and who have inadvertently generated support for those that they would wish to target. As far as the cartoon is concerned, which was the topic of the thread, I'll wait for the courts to decide. As far as being "blind" goes, physician, heal thyself. -- Dan Berkes // http://www.outguide.com/dan mailto: first initial, last name @ value.net ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 18:14:11 GMT On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 18:52:15 +0200, Nicole Lasher wrote: >Dan Berkes wrote: >> And why does this sound exactly like something I read on Fred Phelp's website? >Perhaps it is because you are blind in more ways than one. Are you one of Eugene's "angelic choir", or do you occasionally have an original thought in what passes for your head? Eugene _is_ making the same statements as Phelps. He's directing his bile toward heterosexuals (and not-radical-enough homosexuals, and not-gay-supportive-enough bisexuals) with the same blanket condemnations as Phelps, and you, his pet apologist, support and nurture that while talking about what a wonderful job you do of seeing both sides. Hah! ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:28:10 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 18:14:11 GMT, jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood) wrote: >Are you one of Eugene's "angelic choir" I want to get to this "Eugene" point. So you discovered on my website, my old name was Eugene...wow! Like it's some big dark secret that you now can hold over me. Doesn't it occur to you, that if I did *not like my birth name, I would not announce it on something so globally public as the Internet? I changed my name because my lover died, and to acknowledged that a part of me went with him, I let Eugene Frank Catalano die, and gave myself a new name. Your use of my old name, only signifies your immaturity, and unintelligent behavior. You really think you have something on me, don't you? (guffaw!) All friends who knew me before I changed my name, are welcome to continue calling me Eugene or Gene...I have no problem with this. The only problem I do have, is if they should write a check to me, or mail a letter...then they *must use my new name of Ezekiel Joseph Krahlin. The problem you will have, is to create confusion as to whom you are talking about...including towards those who are in agreement with your pathetic statements. Who am I to intercede in this matter? >Eugene _is_ making the same statements as Phelps. He's directing his >bile toward heterosexuals (and not-radical-enough homosexuals, and >not-gay-supportive-enough bisexuals) with the same blanket >condemnations as Phelps, and you, his pet apologist, support and >nurture that while talking about what a wonderful job you do of seeing >both sides. This theory is quite speculative, if not just plain full of very large holes. I have already explained thoroughly, and in complete detail, where I stand on these issues. And I have saved those threads in which I have discussed these matters, and made them available on my web sites, to anyone who cares to examine them. There is no point in my refuting your preposterous claims, as you will continue to say the same old drivel...and I will not allow myself to be distracted by minor demons. >Hah! Yes, aren't you the victorious one. Enjoy your little victories. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 22:08:38 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:28:10 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) wrote: >On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 18:14:11 GMT, jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. >Northwood) wrote: >>Are you one of Eugene's "angelic choir" >I want to get to this "Eugene" point. So you discovered on my website, >my old name was Eugene...wow! Like it's some big dark secret that you >now can hold over me. Doesn't it occur to you, that if I did *not like >my birth name, I would not announce it on something so globally public >as the Internet? Actually, no. You've made the point of your "name change" often enough. As you haven't evinced the maturity to call others by their rightful names (such as your frequent lipping of "Trenchmouth", "RavensFart" and "Wart"), why should you expect the courtesy of your new name being used? Doesn't it occur to you that, if you _wanted_ your name used correctly, you would use others' names correctly? >I changed my name because my lover died, and to acknowledged that a >part of me went with him, I let Eugene Frank Catalano die, and gave >myself a new name. < shrug > We all have reasons we've done something similar. For some, it's tragedy, for others, joy. >Your use of my old name, only signifies your >immaturity, and unintelligent behavior. Yes, lad, I'm sure that, to you, it does. >You really think you have >something on me, don't you? (guffaw!) Hardly. That thought never crossed my mind. >All friends who knew me before I changed my name, are welcome to >continue calling me Eugene or Gene...I have no problem with this. The >only problem I do have, is if they should write a check to me, or mail >a letter...then they *must use my new name of Ezekiel Joseph Krahlin. You changed your name to E. Joseph Krahlin. Sort of like how Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvil changed his name to V. Josef Stalin. Hmmm -- E. Joseph Krahlin, V. Josef Stalin . . . The mind boggles. Please, you were telling us all how to lead our lives. Do go on. >The problem you will have, is to create confusion as to whom you are >talking about... No, ducks, it's blindingly obvious who I'm addressing. >including towards those who are in agreement with your >pathetic statements. Ah. My pathetic statements, eh? Like pointing out your repeated lies? Like pointing out where you don't know what you're talking about w/r/t virii and so forth? Like pointing out that you're a twit? Do tell. (Oh, and again, .) >Who am I to intercede in this matter? Who indeed? Nobody, to be sure. >>Eugene _is_ making the same statements as Phelps. He's directing his >>bile toward heterosexuals (and not-radical-enough homosexuals, and >>not-gay-supportive-enough bisexuals) with the same blanket >>condemnations as Phelps, and you, his pet apologist, support and >>nurture that while talking about what a wonderful job you do of seeing >>both sides. >This theory is quite speculative, if not just plain full of very large >holes. Hardly. Exchange "fag" or "homosexual" for the majority of your rants and they'll read precisely as though they came off the GodHatesFags web site. >I have already explained thoroughly, and in complete detail, >where I stand on these issues. Yes, you have done a great job of lying repeatedly about a number of things. It seems to be your m.o. >And I have saved those threads in which >I have discussed these matters, and made them available on my web >sites, to anyone who cares to examine them. Yes. And I'm sure they've been "un-retouched", as well. The point, lad, is that other people have seen the threads, other people have read your words, and other people realize what a lying little prat you are. < shrug > No skin off my nose, tho. >There is no point in my refuting your preposterous claims, as you will >continue to say the same old drivel...and I will not allow myself to >be distracted by minor demons. Surely. After all, you're still dealing with Peanuts envy. >>Hah! >Yes, aren't you the victorious one. Enjoy your little victories. Hmmm? Sorry, lad, but it doesn't count as a victory unless there was some effort involved in the win. Night-night. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:42:06 -0700 In article <6t1lim$dva$3@news-1.news.gte.net>, jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood) wrote: >Actually, no. You've made the point of your "name change" often >enough. As you haven't evinced the maturity to call others by their >rightful names (such as your frequent lipping of "Trenchmouth", >"RavensFart" and "Wart"), why should you expect the courtesy of your >new name being used? Do you really expect EZ Kill to hold himself to the same set of standards that he demands of others? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:48:25 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 22:08:38 GMT, jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood) wrote: >>And I have saved those threads in which >>I have discussed these matters, and made them available on my web >>sites, to anyone who cares to examine them. > >Yes. And I'm sure they've been "un-retouched", as well. They certainly do remain in their original state. You will find many people disagreeing with me, and villifying me, there...as they did in the actual exchange. I have change not one thing. This is one reason I don't take your attacks upon me as being deluded...because you and others readily make blatantly false accussations than anyone can easily debunk with simple references, publicly available. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:11:00 GMT On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:48:25 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) wrote: >This is one reason I don't take your attacks upon me as being >deluded...because you and others readily make blatantly false >accussations than anyone can easily debunk with simple references, >publicly available. LOL! Sure thing, delusion-boy. You know what the funniest part of your rants and diatribes is? That every one of your hate-filled and lying posts has been pointed out to you repeatedly, yet your "illness" doesn't allow you to admit that fact. And you say others can't face facts or "reality". Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: sheroux@europa.nospam.com (RavensHeart) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 14:14:22 GMT On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:48:25 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) wrote: >On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 22:08:38 GMT, jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. >Northwood) wrote: > >>>And I have saved those threads in which >>>I have discussed these matters, and made them available on my web >>>sites, to anyone who cares to examine them. >> >>Yes. And I'm sure they've been "un-retouched", as well. > >They certainly do remain in their original state. You will find many >people disagreeing with me, and villifying me, there...as they did in >the actual exchange. I have change not one thing. > >This is one reason I don't take your attacks upon me as being >deluded...because you and others readily make blatantly false >accussations than anyone can easily debunk with simple references, >publicly available. > > On 8/23/98 at 5:28am, exekieljk@my-dejanews.com(Ezekiel Krahlin) wrote: I am also an angelic spirit who speaks through Zeke, from time to time...or in this case, types through his fingers, as I am doing this very moment. This is how schizophrenia can be transformed into the psyche's most powerful tool. We *insist that he glorify himself from time to time, as the path we have chosen for him is often very rough...meaning among other things, with little if any pats on the back from his fellow humans. He does, however, get plenty of pats from us, his guardian spirits. You have absolutely no power over him, a loyal servant of the White Sister/Brotherhood (the angels). Your insistance that Zeke deserves no recognition or reward, bespeaks one who dabbles in the black arts...using one's tongue to condemn through reptitious chants of denigration. He has *our help. We are his archetypal archangels, better than thorazine, stellazine, hellazine, mellowzine, getwellazine, or even the sanctified prozac...or anything else man's dark sciences can conjure up. But our Angelic Order sustains him with courage and insight... let's leave it at that, for now. Zeke needs his sleep. Go back to sleep zekaroni. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 17:39:05 GMT On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 14:14:22 GMT, sheroux@europa.nospam.com (RavensHeart) wrote: >But our Angelic Order sustains him with courage and insight... >let's leave it at that, for now. Zeke needs his sleep. > > >Go back to sleep zekaroni. Do you think it's an easy thing to stay away, perusing your sort of drivel? But I knew you'd enjoy my angelic rant...you're all over that one, arent' you? And you're doing with it exactly what I want you to. God, I'm good! Creamy dreamy RavensHeart: Tries to speak, but only farts. Gives himself a holy name, Then uses it to mock and maim. What would Edgar Allen do, Should meet a raven just like you? I think he'd quickly learn the score-- Raise a fist to you, implore: "Raven's raving nevermore!" --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:55:11 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 12:41:44 +0300, Nicole Lasher wrote: >I'd say, from watching you and your few cohorts go after Ezekiel, that the RR was >doing quite well at keeping us divided. What we are up against, Nicole, is a society brainwashed to believe that, what was once considered liberal and progressive as a good, healthy attitude in righting wrongs...has now become regarded as anti-Amerikan and diabolical. Unfortunately, many gays have bought into this dogma, too. And, as you so correctly point out, the RR has done a good job of tricking the masses into believing their bullshit. The result? Many gays are no less conformist than our bible thumpers and other enemies, who will annihilate all gays whenever and wherever they get the chance. I hope you excellent and well written prognosis addressed to Wart, will reach a few more ears. --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with the "Peenuts" copyright issue: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:28:32 +0300 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > Unfortunately, many gays have bought > into this dogma, too. And, as you so correctly point out, the RR has > done a good job of tricking the masses into believing their bullshit. Yes, that's why it was invented in the first place...to control the masses. They're better at it, because they have about 6000 years worth of practice. (The estimated time since the concept of "god" became displaced from nature.) I believe the ancient Greeks attempted to counter this shift in theology by purposefully keeping the "gods" nepotist and arbitrary rather than "just", but time has proven that the majority of people aren't capable of handling this. Mostly has to do with self confidence. > I hope you excellent and well written prognosis addressed to Wart, > will reach a few more ears. I hope so too, though I don't expect many to respond. This thread has brought to the surface most of the root of certain peoples' problems with you. Hopefully I've helped to give you and them alot to think about, but that's my (future) job. ::huggles:: ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:58:09 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:28:32 +0300, Nicole Lasher wrote: >> I hope you excellent and well written prognosis addressed to Wart, >> will reach a few more ears. > >I hope so too, though I don't expect many to respond. This thread has brought to the >surface most of the root of certain peoples' problems with you. It ain't the first thread, believe me...it's just that I have begun my next duties as a warrior...and must begin to separate chaff from which, as well as educate. For the civil war/jihad against gays is soon to bust through. My role is to turn it into one, big, hilarious and bloodless adventure...with gays victorious. >Hopefully I've helped to give you and them alot to think about, >but that's my (future) job. ::huggles:: This is why I appreciate so much, that you were so kind as to take the time to do so, Nicole! But as you can see, I am very self confident, and completely aware of my destiny. I think many who hate me now, will befriend me a little ways further down the line. --- Right-wing queers are all it takes To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes. --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue: http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 15:46:16 -0700 > Yes, that's why it was invented in the first place...to control the masses. They're > better at it, because they have about 6000 years worth of practice. (The estimated > time since the concept of "god" became displaced from nature.) > I believe the ancient Greeks attempted to counter this shift in theology by > purposefully keeping the "gods" nepotist and arbitrary rather than "just", but time > has proven that the majority of people aren't capable of handling this. Mostly has to > do with self confidence. Yes, it's much easier in the short run to abdicate all personal responsibility to some kind of god or demon. God is testing me, satan made me do it, it's god's will, that sort of thing. Jeff jdcroft@nospam.best.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:01:12 -0700 In article <35EE6458.CA4C4A28@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: >How many activists do you know of who say, "Oh, it's okay if you just sit on >your duff on election day...we don't mind...and oh, don't worry about >defending yourself or speaking out...We'll take care of that for you...You just >sit on your hiney, and let "us" take care of everything..." >No, They say "Get off your ass and DO something!" and then, they tell you why >it needs to be done. If that's what he would have done, I would have supported him fully, but he goes beyond that and accuses those who aren't activists of sharing the values of our oppressors. It's like accusing the Swiss of siding with our enemies because they don't side with us. >They should be as afraid to call a Gay person a derogatory name to their >face as >they are to call a Black person a derogatory name to their face. >Fortunately, because of people like Ezekiel, this is becoming the case. I disagree; I doubt that he's having any such effect on them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:58:11 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:01:12 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >I disagree; I doubt that he's having any such effect on them. Wait'll the Schulz hits the fan! --- Right-wing queers are all it takes To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes. --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue: http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:38:08 -0700 In article <35efc152.25801355@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:01:12 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle >Steiner) wrote: > >>I disagree; I doubt that he's having any such effect on them. > >Wait'll the Schulz hits the fan! The results will be peanuts. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:27:25 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:38:08 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >>Wait'll the Schulz hits the fan! > >The results will be peanuts. Well, I certainly wouldn't work for peanuts! --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 18:13:01 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:01:12 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >In article <35EE6458.CA4C4A28@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher > wrote: > >>How many activists do you know of who say, "Oh, it's okay if you just sit on >>your duff on election day...we don't mind...and oh, don't worry about >>defending yourself or speaking out...We'll take care of that for you...You just >>sit on your hiney, and let "us" take care of everything..." >>No, They say "Get off your ass and DO something!" and then, they tell you why >>it needs to be done. > >If that's what he would have done, I would have supported him fully, but he >goes beyond that and accuses those who aren't activists of sharing the >values of our oppressors. It's like accusing the Swiss of siding with our >enemies because they don't side with us. Actually what he does is even worse, less sensible, less realistic than that -- he has decided that the activists who are not activists in PRECISELY the way that he is are traitors. Those who do not yell on street-corners about the glory of Thrace are all Homophobes. The guy is a nut case -- unfortunately he is not amusing and the net effect of his ravings and ramblings is that the genuine homophobes who stand arrayed against us are reenforced in their delusions by the sight of the King of Thrace and by the stupid things he says. ward ----------------------------------------------------- "They have to convert our agenda into something aggressive. Two guys wanting to be happy together are invading their marriages. Helping a kid who's getting beaten up in school is promoting homosexuality. If you gave me a million dollars, I wouldn't know how to promote homosexuality. Do I hire Don King?" Barney Frank ----------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:27:33 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 18:13:01 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) wrote: >The guy is a nut case -- unfortunately he is not amusing and the net >effect of his ravings and ramblings is that the genuine homophobes who >stand arrayed against us are reenforced in their delusions by the >sight of the King of Thrace and by the stupid things he says. You're only degrading yourself in the long run, Wart, by making such rude statements about me...and in some cases, very crude remarks that bespeak a less than considerate or responsible human being. Do you really think degrading your own validity for the sake of fullfilling your own petty spite, will do you any good? --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:53:47 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:44:53 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) wrote: >>>It is not a good idea to generalize a whole group of people...So perhaps what >>>you percieve to be his generalization of hetrosexuals is not a good thing, >>>but his expression of hatred for homophobes most certainly is constructive >>>for him. > >NO, IT IS NOT! He has no focus on actual homophobes and places all >who are not ready to march off into cloud coo coo land with him as >"traitors turncoats and enemies" You must forgive our Wart, for he knows not what he babbles. Living in Hawaii, one can easily suffer the misfortune of a coconut (or magma chunk) falling on one's head. --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with the "Peenuts" copyright issue: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:39:43 -0700 In article <35ED397D.F7DDD158@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: >kilpatri@sgi.duh.com wrote: > >> ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) writes: >> >> >Sorry, you lose. What do you think of Rev. Fred Phelps' site known as >> >"GodHatesFaggots.com"? I am only giving our arrogant heteros a little >> >taste of what kind of blasphemy is poured upon us gays every moment of >> >every day of our lives. >> >> Hatred is evil, no matter what side you're on. > >This is where your opinion and mine differ, and probably why you have a >problem relating to Ezekiel. Since it's my job, or my future job, to mediate >such situations, I guess I'll start practicing now....So here goes. > >Justified hatred is not evil. Some people have done things for which they >deserve much hatred indeed. >It is not a good idea to generalize a whole group of people...So perhaps what >you percieve to be his generalization of hetrosexuals is not a good thing, >but his expression of hatred for homophobes most certainly is constructive >for him. He has extended his justifiable hatred of homophobes to everyone who is not on the front lines fighting homophobia. That is not only not justifiable, it is not rational. --Michelle ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:08:56 GMT On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:39:43 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >He has extended his justifiable hatred of homophobes to everyone who is not >on the front lines fighting homophobia. That is not only not justifiable, >it is not rational. Hardly. I am criticizing the continued silence in the face of anti-gay hatred, by a majority of heteros, including those who consider themselves liberal and gay-friendly. This goes for our liberal mainstream newspaper of the "gay mecca", the S.F. Examiner...which recently printed a full-page anti-gay ad. This goes for our liberal heteros who hang out in gay clubs and bars, then try to sue these places for being kicked out for heavy petting. As if gays were so welcome at hetero hangouts! These are not from the religious right, dear! And there are way more of them, than they'd like to let on. This is comparable to the situation for Jews in pre-Nazi Germany: the seething anti-semitism was already there, long before Nazis rose to power. They just used this unresolved hatred to foment it into terrorism and tyranny. We still have a massive undercurrent of homophobia seething throughout Amerika...and the religious right is using it much as the Nazis did. They are stirring the pot of homophobia which goes way beyond the bounds of KKKristian fundamentalist circles. --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Bill Lindemann Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 02:37:52 +0000 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > Hardly. I am criticizing the continued silence in the face of anti-gay > hatred, by a majority of heteros, including those who consider > themselves liberal and gay-friendly. This goes for our liberal > mainstream newspaper of the "gay mecca", the S.F. Examiner...which > recently printed a full-page anti-gay ad. I too was extremely bothered by that ad, but I am willing togive them a chance to prove themselves. Also, being of a scientific slant of mind, I'm curious to test their assertions via experiment. So, I keep trying to think of how to get together a group of people to pony up $35,000 and what ad to try placing. The obvious problems are: 1) Most people would be squeamish about trying to place an ad maligning groups that we like, even if holding one's nose and doing it would help defuse the Examiner's claim of merely presenting varied points of view. To this end, I suppose, ads saying "We're here to say that you can change from being a dumb n***" or "It's not impossible to change from a baby-Jesus-killer to a Christian" are out. (Note: I'm not being racist or anti-Jewish, just pointing out that that's about the same impact as the anti-gay ad had) 2) It would reflect back badly on the gay community if it were seen as being posted by us; thus a front organization is needed. 3) It would be best if we could kill two birds with one stone by implying that a *real* group we don't like placed the ad, but I'm sure the Examiner wouldn't go along with that. That leaves forming an anonymous front group, but, sheesh! Shades of terrorist bombings! "A previously unknown gay organization today took responsibility for the ad placed yesterday in the SF Examiner..." So, aside from the obvious (and justifiable) counter-argument that $35,000 would be entirely wasted money, better spent elsewhere, anyone have any ideas how this could be done? It would be fun just doing the "thought experiment", especially since the details could be used as the basis for a short story, and stories have a way of changing people's minds too, if they're realistically written. -Bill ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:20:37 -0700 In article <35ee0e16.4304714@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:39:43 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle >Steiner) wrote: > >>He has extended his justifiable hatred of homophobes to everyone who is not >>on the front lines fighting homophobia. That is not only not justifiable, >>it is not rational. > >Hardly. I am criticizing the continued silence in the face of anti-gay >hatred, by a majority of heteros, including those who consider >themselves liberal and gay-friendly. Well, as I said, you must be anti-woman, a racist, and a religious bigot; I don't see you fighting misogyny, racism, and relgious bigotry. > >These are not from the religious right, dear! And there are way more >of them, than they'd like to let on. This is comparable to the >situation for Jews in pre-Nazi Germany: the seething anti-semitism was >already there, long before Nazis rose to power. They just used this >unresolved hatred to foment it into terrorism and tyranny. We still >have a massive undercurrent of homophobia seething throughout >Amerika...and the religious right is using it much as the Nazis did. It's not as massive as you have deluded yoruself into thinking. >They are stirring the pot of homophobia which goes way beyond the >bounds of KKKristian fundamentalist circles. You are doing more to stir the pot of homophobia than they are. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:58:15 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:20:37 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >Well, as I said, you must be anti-woman, a racist, and a religious bigot; I >don't see you fighting misogyny, racism, and relgious bigotry. Ridiculous and ignorant things to say. I am dedicated to gay rights...I do not have time to take care of everyone else's. When I fight these other prejudices, it is always in a gay dimension. You see me presently fighting corporate power, which attempts to suppress my free speech. I do this on behalf of gay rights. This is more than enough for now, I can't handle any more. It is terribly silly, however, for accusing me of not fighting for all other prejudices...as if any one person could do that. To chastise me for *only focusing on gay rights smacks of homophobia. >It's not as massive as you have deluded yoruself into thinking. Sure, that's why our progressive, democrat, gay-friendly President signed DOMA. That's why, this last time Rev. Phelps came to town, he was protected by S.F. cops. That's why the S.F. Examiner recently published an anti-gay ad. I could go on, but I won't. >You are doing more to stir the pot of homophobia than they are. Really? Why don't you try suing me, then? Homophobia's a terrible thing, and you should try to stop me, if you really believe this. --- Right-wing queers are all it takes To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes. --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue: http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:44:51 -0700 In article <35efc175.25836210@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >>Well, as I said, you must be anti-woman, a racist, and a religious bigot; I >>don't see you fighting misogyny, racism, and relgious bigotry. > >Ridiculous and ignorant things to say. I am dedicated to gay >rights...I do not have time to take care of everyone else's. Yet you accuse those who do not actively support gay rights (even though they might, for all you know, be fighting other abuses of rights) of being anti-gay. >>It's not as massive as you have deluded yoruself into thinking. > >Sure, that's why our progressive, democrat, gay-friendly President >signed DOMA. IMO, he's not as gay friendly as he makes himself out to be; DOMA and "don't ask, don't tell" being his two biggest follies. >That's why, this last time Rev. Phelps came to town, he >was protected by S.F. cops. He was not being protected for his views; he was being protected as a citizen. Even assholes like Phelps are jerks. I was in the crowd outside Grace Cathedral when when he picketted Randy Shilts's memorial service, and I was in the pride parade when he picketted that in 95. >That's why the S.F. Examiner recently published an anti-gay ad. Along with a free-speech editorial denouncing the ad. It's similar to the ACLU defending the KKKs right to hold their rallies and parades in Jewish neighborhoods. Don't forget Voltaire's comment on the right to voice opinions. >>You are doing more to stir the pot of homophobia than they are. > >Really? Why don't you try suing me, then? Homophobia's a terrible >thing, and you should try to stop me, if you really believe this. There are no grounds to sue you. You're merely exercising your right to free speech, as am I when I voice my disagreement with some of your views. >That's why the S.F. Examiner recently >published an anti-gay ad. I could go on, but I won't. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:27:34 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:44:51 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >>Ridiculous and ignorant things to say. I am dedicated to gay >>rights...I do not have time to take care of everyone else's. > >Yet you accuse those who do not actively support gay rights (even though >they might, for all you know, be fighting other abuses of rights) of being >anti-gay. Nope. I've never done that. I've only kept within the topic of gay rights, and challenged those who claim they are pro-gay, or who have conformist attitudes, yet believe they are liberal. >IMO, he's not as gay friendly as he makes himself out to be; DOMA and >"don't ask, don't tell" being his two biggest follies. Typical liberal het. >>That's why, this last time Rev. Phelps came to town, he >>was protected by S.F. cops. > >He was not being protected for his views; he was being protected as a >citizen. Even assholes like Phelps are jerks. The point is: in previous visitations, he was not honored with a police escort. This last time, suddenly he was. Must be the cops for Christ. >>That's why the S.F. Examiner recently published an anti-gay ad. > >Along with a free-speech editorial denouncing the ad. How nice of them. No doubt you bought into this sham, hook line and sinker. So when will we see ads from the KKK that Jews killed Jesus, and should be converted? Or ads from the Aryan movement, saying blacks are subhuman and should be put in cages? >It's similar to the >ACLU defending the KKKs right to hold their rallies and parades in Jewish >neighborhoods. Yes, but we usually have masses of people publicly denouncing these KKK rallies...some even chasing them out of town. But we don't see any groups of liberal hets publicly challenging homophobic preachers and anti-gay church gatherings. Because they basically approve of it, in their inaction and silence. >Don't forget Voltaire's comment on the right to voice opinions. Oh, sure...the S.F. Examiner is so noble! Where are the ads portraying same-sex couples? We don't even start with a level playing field...yet when bigots buy ads, we're supposed to celebrate, because it's an expression of free speech? Virtually every single advertisement is heterocentric...and most of that objectifies women. So before you begin to vigorously defend homophobic bigots...I suggest you first fight to give gays fair representation in the press, and in advertising. Then, once we have that, if ever, I'd be less concerned about bigots buying big fat ads...basically declarations of war upon homosexuals. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:47:33 -0700 In article <35f0ac6f.32899325@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >>>That's why, this last time Rev. Phelps came to town, he >>>was protected by S.F. cops. >> >>He was not being protected for his views; he was being protected as a >>citizen. Even assholes like Phelps are jerks. > >The point is: in previous visitations, he was not honored with a >police escort. This last time, suddenly he was. Must be the cops for >Christ. I personally know of only two times that he visited San Francisco; the two that I mentioned (Randy Shilts's memorial service and the 1995 Pride Parade). He had police escorts both times. Of course, if he hadn't had those escorts, some hot head would have tried to attack him, and the hot head would have wound up being arrested and tried--and the homophobes would have a PR victory. The police escort wasn't so much for his safety as for preserving peace. BTW, why don't you accuse the airlines of aiding and abetting him by selling him the tickets and flying him here--and the car rental company for renting him the van to drive from SFO to the city? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:48:13 GMT On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:47:33 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >BTW, why don't you accuse the airlines of aiding and abetting him by >selling him the tickets and flying him here--and the car rental company for >renting him the van to drive from SFO to the city? I do! But without the backup of legal counsel, I am helpless. These right-wing homophobes get tons of support and accommodation by our silent hetero majority, who wear the sheep-wool guise of "liberal" and "gay friendly". They are only too glad to escort him to San Francisco, to bash us lowly faggots...from the airline company to the car rental, to the hotel, and so on. You would *not see them do this for the KKK...unless they did so in clandestine fashion. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:52:24 -0700 In article <35f0ac6f.32899325@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >>It's similar to the >>ACLU defending the KKKs right to hold their rallies and parades in Jewish >>neighborhoods. > >Yes, but we usually have masses of people publicly denouncing these >KKK rallies...some even chasing them out of town. But we don't see any >groups of liberal hets publicly challenging homophobic preachers and >anti-gay church gatherings. Because they basically approve of it, in >their inaction and silence. I don't know where you have been, but I've seen them do that. >>Don't forget Voltaire's comment on the right to voice opinions. > >Oh, sure...the S.F. Examiner is so noble! Where are the ads >portraying same-sex couples? They can print only those ads they're paid to print. Where are all the gays who are ponying up the money to buy those ads? BTW, have you seen the auto ad from Hardford Insurance? It shows two identical pink cars next to each other, captioned that they sell insurance to lesbian couples; then two blue cars, captioned that they sell insurance to gay male couples, and then one car of each color, captioned that they "even" sell insurance to het couples. The point being that the rates are lower for two cars owned by a couple than for two cars individually. BTW, when will you turn your pen and wit against United Airlines? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:48:24 GMT On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:52:24 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >BTW, when will you turn your pen and wit against United Airlines? Considering how occupied I am now with the Pee Nuts debacle, I can't possibly do any more. You should seek out others with the talent to do so, and assist them in confronting United Airlines. We are a community, aren't we? If you don't feel you have the talent or wit to be the spokesperson or saboteur...then help by gathering all necessary information for the chosen artist. I would also suggest, that all people involved in such efforts should get equal recognition, instead of credit just the most publicly-shown activists. It's only fair, and it will help empower our community much better than it now stands. There is not one gay hero I know of, that has not been made into a position of recognition, without the knuckle-grinding work of many unsung heroes. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:52:42 GMT On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:48:24 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) wrote: >On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:52:24 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle >Steiner) wrote: > >>BTW, when will you turn your pen and wit against United Airlines? > >Considering how occupied I am now with the Pee Nuts debacle, I can't >possibly do any more. Besides identifying an exchange of dopey letters as a "debacle," what have you done -- ? I cannot imagine anyone's doing LESS. Grandiosity seldom appears in a more modest form. ward ------------------------------------------------------ "You people are helping us do that, by proving that discrimination against homosexuals does, in fact, happen. It is ubiquitous and endemic, and you bigots have as many excuses for it, as eskimos have words for snow. -Bruce Garrett ------------------------------------------------------ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:37:57 +0200 Ward Stewart wrote: > Besides identifying an exchange of dopey letters as a "debacle," what > have you done -- ? > > I cannot imagine anyone's doing LESS. Grandiosity seldom appears in a > more modest form. > > ward Dopey letters...Heheheh... Let me tell you a story... My great grandfather was a tenant farmer back in the day. Much like it was during slavery, they had to work every day of the week except Sunday. My great grandfather, however, was an "Old Testament" follower (due to some aspects of my lineage that we can't really trace well due to the human-trade) and believed that they should be allowed to have Saturdays off too. He talked to the other men and women he worked with, and they all rallied behind him that night. They determined that the very next morning, they would march up to the Cap'm's front porch and demand that they be allowed to have Shabbat free from work. When they met the next morning, everyone was raring to go...They were all standing behind my great grandaddy, and standing tall, marching towards the house. When they got there, my great grandaddy called out, and Cap'm came to the door, and out to the front porch. My great grandaddy proceeded to give his speech about religious freedom, and the right to not have to work on Saturdays. At the end, he said something like "We demand to have Saturdays off!" Cap'm looks around, and then looks at my great grandaddy, and says "Who is 'we'?" There was nobody left standing there but my great grandaddy, Sam. Cap'm says, "Sam, YOU can have Saturdays off," and then he went back into his house....and so it was. Ward, you can talk all you want to about dopey letters, but the fact remains that rights don't just fall out of the sky. They have to be demanded, and fought for. You can wait around for someone to hand you your rights if you want to, but don't try to stop other people from doing what they have to do... ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 20:14:37 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:37:57 +0200, Nicole Lasher wrote: > >Ward, you can talk all you want to about dopey letters, but the fact >remains that rights don't just fall out of the sky. They have to be >demanded, and fought for. You can wait around for someone to hand you >your rights if you want to, but don't try to stop other people from doing >what they have to do... > >~Niki The imputation that I have been standing around and waiting for the last fifty years or so is grossly offensive! I have been a civil libertarian all my life and first campaigned for Henry Wallace in 1948. I am NOT "wait(ing) around for someone to hand you (me my) your rights." What I would wish to stop is Zeke's irrational rap and pointless excitements and howling on street-corners. My arguments for civil rights, for human rights and for EQUAL standing before the law for ALL are rational and the legal and legislative changes being sought are within the constitutional framework of our republic. When he labels Charles Schultz as "SCHITZ" he is gratuitously offensive to a man and a cartoon character with NO RELEVANCE WHATSOEVER to the actual campaign for human rights. NONE! When he calls for the idiotic establishment of "Thrace" he provides the enemy, our common enemy, with proof that homosexuals are irrational and are demanding stupid stuff. Do not suppose that this message is unheeded.-- He is, with this nutso rap, feeding into the delusions of Pat Robertson and the rest of the enemy, OUR enemy. ward ward ----------------------------------------------------- "The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women ... It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become Lesbians." -- Pat Robertson (1992) ----------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:59:52 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 20:14:37 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) wrote: >The imputation that I have been standing around and waiting for the >last fifty years or so is grossly offensive! I have been a civil >libertarian all my life and first campaigned for Henry Wallace in >1948. Well, being a "libertarian" explains a lot of your right-wing attitudes. While it is commendable that you serve gay rights in your own way...it only smudges your record, to foolishly denigrate another because it offends your assimilationist ideas. But if you must smudge, then smudge on! >What I would wish to stop is Zeke's irrational rap and pointless >excitements and howling on street-corners. You would have me censored. I am not unaware of this. So much for your belief in free speech. >My arguments for civil >rights, for human rights and for EQUAL standing before the law for ALL >are rational and the legal and legislative changes being sought are >within the constitutional framework of our republic. My claims are also within a constitutional framework. What you consider a framework, is not from the constitution, but from assimilationist attitudes...status quo heterocentric dogma. >When he labels Charles Schultz as "SCHITZ" he is gratuitously >offensive to a man and a cartoon character with NO RELEVANCE >WHATSOEVER to the actual campaign for human rights. NONE! Not so at all...Schulz is quite relevant to the matter...as I have already explained in "My Pee Nut Agenda", on this thread. For an updated version, read: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite/agenda.htm You are making a mountain out of a molehill, by insisting my converting "Schulz" to "Schitz" is terribly horrendous. You, my dear bombastic libertarian, are an assimilationist, and by so being, you would not *dare challenge one of our greatest symbols of status-quo pap: Peanuts. >When he calls for the idiotic establishment of "Thrace" he provides >the enemy, our common enemy, with proof that homosexuals are >irrational and are demanding stupid stuff. I made it very clear that this is a separatist *philosophy, and that the dream of having our own gay nation--which I call "Athenia"--may not fulfill itself for several centuries, if at all. And "Thracian" is the term I propose as an alternate word for "gay male". For you to take my original and mischievous ideas and tactics, and reinterpret them as pro-homophobic, is plain and simple treason. >Do not suppose that this message is unheeded.-- He is, with this nutso >rap, feeding into the delusions of Pat Robertson and the rest of the >enemy, OUR enemy. I would say that, with friends like you, who needs Pat Robertson? --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:23:57 -0700 [[You are making a mountain out of a molehill, by insisting my converting "Schulz" to "Schitz" is terribly horrendous. You, my dear bombastic libertarian, are an assimilationist, and by so being, you would not *dare challenge one of our greatest symbols of status-quo pap: Peanuts.>> Blah blah blah, blah blah blah. [[I made it very clear that this is a separatist *philosophy, and that the dream of having our own gay nation--which I call "Athenia"--may not fulfill itself for several centuries, if at all. And "Thracian" is the term I propose as an alternate word for "gay male". For you to take my original and mischievous ideas and tactics, and reinterpret them as pro-homophobic, is plain and simple treason.>> Blah blah blah treason, blah blah blah homophobia, blah blah blah praise the Almighty Krahlin for He is All Wisdom. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 17:46:37 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:23:57 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester wrote: >[[You are making a mountain out of a molehill, by insisting my >converting "Schulz" to "Schitz" is terribly horrendous. NOT "horrendous," just stupid and tacky. Having managed an offensive construction of his name you are whining piteously because his attorneys protest with a form letter. Get over your silly self! ward *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "The default condition for a citizen in our republic is that in any harmless matter he is FREE to act as he will. He is NOT to be restricted by prejudices and animosity amongst his neighbors -- if THEY wish to restrain him from his freedom, THEY must demonstrate the public interest in so restricting him." Uncle Ward *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 02:31:43 GMT On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 17:46:37 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) wrote: >NOT "horrendous," just stupid and tacky. Having managed an offensive >construction of his name you are whining piteously because his >attorneys protest with a form letter. Their letter of protest is illegal...for they impersonated an officer of the law; in this case, a judge. They clearly accused me of copyright infringement, not mentioning once that a parodied work is not infringment...and for anyone to decide otherwise, they must drag it into court, where the final conclusion is up to judge and/or jury. The attorneys for Schulz just shot themselves in the foot. Good grief! --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 03:41:53 GMT On Wed, 09 Sep 1998 02:31:43 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) wrote: >>Having managed an offensive >>construction of his name you are whining piteously because his >>attorneys protest with a form letter. Who's "whining piteously?" I'm reveling! I'm celebrating! I'm hollering down every street I walk: "Charles Schulz is suing me!". I think it's hilairous...a dream come true. I will milk this opportuntiy for all it's worth, to have a voice for gay liberation. Good grief! --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Joseph Canale Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:19:11 -0400 On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > Who's "whining piteously?" I'm reveling! I'm celebrating! I'm > hollering down every street I walk: "Charles Schulz is suing me!". I > think it's hilairous...a dream come true. I will milk this opportuntiy > for all it's worth, to have a voice for gay liberation. Good grief! "Ezekiel Cretin, you blockhead" -Lucy ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:18:53 GMT On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:19:11 -0400, Joseph Canale wrote: >> think it's hilairous...a dream come true. I will milk this opportuntiy >> for all it's worth, to have a voice for gay liberation. Good grief! > >"Ezekiel Cretin, you blockhead" > > -Lucy "Nobody seems to understand me" -Charlie Brown --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 07:10:28 GMT On Wed, 09 Sep 1998 02:31:43 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) wrote: >>Having managed an offensive >>construction of his name you are whining piteously because his >>attorneys protest with a form letter. THE QUESTIONABLE LEGALITY OF COUNSEL'S LETTER Ezekiel J. Krahlin, 9/8/98 For any company to outright declare an artist's parody to be in violaton of another's work, prior to any court decision agreeing to such, is patently illegal. The ultimate decision of whether or not a work is parody, must be decided in court...if any potential plaintiff cares to challenge the piece. Schulz's lawyer's letter was an infringement on my person, and a slanderous accusation. Letter did not say "We believe your work may be an infringement of our clients' art." If they did, then they would be legal. Instead, they claimed absolutely that my work is a copyright and/or trademark violation. Their letter was entitled "Unauthorized use of PEANUTS Characters", and later said "...all of which constitutes a clear violation of these rights." Had they phrased it like: "Questionable use of PEANUTS Characters", and "...all of which constitutes a possible violation of these rights"...then they would be behaving as responsible attorneys, instead of asserting authority that only belongs to a judge and jury. (These are but two examples among several in the letter, in which they impersonate a judge.) As I understand copyright law, when the piece in qu

MY GAY-RIGHTS CARTOON IS CHARGED WITH COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT! (newsgroup: alt.politics.homosexuality) -- PART 3 OF 4

MY GAY-RIGHTS CARTOON IS CHARGED WITH COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!
(newsgroup: alt.politics.homosexuality) -- PART 3 OF 4