RE: GOD AND PROFANITY

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========
Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet.christianlife
Subject: Re: God And Profanity
From: chief_thracianNO@SPAMyahoo.com (Chief Thracian)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:30:12 GMT

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:19:15 -0500, "Sugien" 
wrote:

>-- 
>From the Desk of Paul   CKC
>........... /}
>@###{ ]::::::Cyber Knight for Christ::::::>
>-------- \} 

You know of course, Jesus is homosexual.

In fact, that's the MAIN reason he was crucified. Just as it is today.




-- 
Zeke Krahlin
http://www.gay-bible.org

========
Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christian.biblestudy
Subject: Re: God And Profanity
From: bob young 
Date: 12 Jan 2008 20:08:02 -0600



Sugien wrote:

> "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"  wrote in message
> news:13ohsaa54nbq277@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "Gabriel"  wrote in message
> > news:p0qho3d0qal81g00ro5j9jo8f8njp3m6i0@4ax.com...
> >> On 12 Jan 2008 03:22:02 -0600, bob young
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Carl wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Dave certainly likes to use profanity in his Usenet posts. That's
> >>>> really too
> >>>> bad because he might be able to communicate more effectively and
> >>>> intelligently if he would refrain from using profanity. Leslie
> >>>> Trombly's
> >>>> sermon centers on man's use of profanity and how we may try to better
> >>>> avoid
> >>>> falling into that trap. I hope Dave reads this and perhaps he might
> >>>> find it
> >>>> uplifting and edifying.
> >>>
> >>>Does your god never show it's eternal gratitiude to you humans for doing
> >>>all of
> >>>'His' work for him and for knowing so much about what 'He' thinks?
> >>
> >> God has indeed shown his gratitude. We see His blessings in our
> >> life every day! If you one day repent and accept the gift of
> >> Jesus Christ into your heart, you'll see the same blessings in
> >> your life as well.
> >
> > what blessings do you see, do you win the lottery daily?
>
> It constantly amazes me that not only do non-believers but most Christians
> as well think that becoming a Christian gives the believer more money.
>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>Strange isn't i?  A god that created the entire universe needs Carl to do
> >>>'His'
> >>>bidding.
> >>
> >> God needs nothing. It brings glory and honor to Him for us to do
> >> so. To follow His commandments is to honor God - to worship Him -
> >> our Creator and Savior.
> >
> > he didn't create us, my parents created me when they fucked
>
> Intercourse does indeed *start* the process of creating a human body; but it
> is God that puts the *living* spirit into it.

Does that include the one in 400,000 fetus that arrive from the womb grossly
deformed, so gross the parents are not allowed to see it?

What is your god's rationale for that?

>
> >
> >>
> >> Praise the Lord and give thanks for His grace!
> >
> > death to the mass  murdering bastard christian god
> >
> >
>
> I find it laughable that you would purpose such a thing considering that you
> are in effect purposing the death of something which you say doesn't exist
> in the first place.
>
> --
> From the Desk of Paul   CKC
> ........... /}
> @###{ ]::::::Cyber Knight for Christ::::::>
> -------- \}


========
Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christian.biblestudy
Subject: Re: God And Profanity
From: "Sugien" 
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:25:42 -0500


"bob young"  wrote in message 
news:478971DB.45167B8E@netvigator.com...
>
>
> Sugien wrote:
>
>> "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"  wrote in message
>> news:13ohsaa54nbq277@corp.supernews.com...
>> >
>> > "Gabriel"  wrote in message
>> > news:p0qho3d0qal81g00ro5j9jo8f8njp3m6i0@4ax.com...
>> >> On 12 Jan 2008 03:22:02 -0600, bob young
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Carl wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Dave certainly likes to use profanity in his Usenet posts. That's
>> >>>> really too
>> >>>> bad because he might be able to communicate more effectively and
>> >>>> intelligently if he would refrain from using profanity. Leslie
>> >>>> Trombly's
>> >>>> sermon centers on man's use of profanity and how we may try to 
>> >>>> better
>> >>>> avoid
>> >>>> falling into that trap. I hope Dave reads this and perhaps he might
>> >>>> find it
>> >>>> uplifting and edifying.
>> >>>
>> >>>Does your god never show it's eternal gratitiude to you humans for 
>> >>>doing
>> >>>all of
>> >>>'His' work for him and for knowing so much about what 'He' thinks?
>> >>
>> >> God has indeed shown his gratitude. We see His blessings in our
>> >> life every day! If you one day repent and accept the gift of
>> >> Jesus Christ into your heart, you'll see the same blessings in
>> >> your life as well.
>> >
>> > what blessings do you see, do you win the lottery daily?
>>
>> It constantly amazes me that not only do non-believers but most 
>> Christians
>> as well think that becoming a Christian gives the believer more money.
>>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>Strange isn't i?  A god that created the entire universe needs Carl to 
>> >>>do
>> >>>'His'
>> >>>bidding.
>> >>
>> >> God needs nothing. It brings glory and honor to Him for us to do
>> >> so. To follow His commandments is to honor God - to worship Him -
>> >> our Creator and Savior.
>> >
>> > he didn't create us, my parents created me when they fucked
>>
>> Intercourse does indeed *start* the process of creating a human body; but 
>> it
>> is God that puts the *living* spirit into it.
>
> Does that include the one in 400,000 fetus that arrive from the womb 
> grossly
> deformed, so gross the parents are not allowed to see it?
>
> What is your god's rationale for that?
>
Acutely I would think it could be laid more on mans door step for putting 
profit above safety.  Then because of such, hazardous chemicals polluting 
our water and air and thus *man* not God is responsible for it.  Likewise 
radiation is more then likely also to blame, which of course man let loose 
in his inhumanity to man along with his wanting to make more money by 
creating power from atomic power plants, further polluting the air and 
water.  Hmm, I wonder if man irradiating food in an attempt to create more 
money by allowing foods to remain on the shelves for a longer period of time 
without spoilage?  I say *MAN* is responsible and NOT God.


-- 
From the Desk of Paul   CKC
........... /}
@###{ ]::::::Cyber Knight for Christ::::::>
-------- \}




========
Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christian.biblestudy
Subject: Re: God And Profanity
From: "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" 
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:48:10 -0500


"Sugien"  wrote in message 
news:478a81d6$0$7189$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> "bob young"  wrote in message 
> news:478971DB.45167B8E@netvigator.com...
>>
>>
>> Sugien wrote:
>>
>>> "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"  wrote in message
>>> news:13ohsaa54nbq277@corp.supernews.com...
>>> >
>>> > "Gabriel"  wrote in message
>>> > news:p0qho3d0qal81g00ro5j9jo8f8njp3m6i0@4ax.com...
>>> >> On 12 Jan 2008 03:22:02 -0600, bob young
>>> >>  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Carl wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Dave certainly likes to use profanity in his Usenet posts. That's
>>> >>>> really too
>>> >>>> bad because he might be able to communicate more effectively and
>>> >>>> intelligently if he would refrain from using profanity. Leslie
>>> >>>> Trombly's
>>> >>>> sermon centers on man's use of profanity and how we may try to 
>>> >>>> better
>>> >>>> avoid
>>> >>>> falling into that trap. I hope Dave reads this and perhaps he might
>>> >>>> find it
>>> >>>> uplifting and edifying.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Does your god never show it's eternal gratitiude to you humans for 
>>> >>>doing
>>> >>>all of
>>> >>>'His' work for him and for knowing so much about what 'He' thinks?
>>> >>
>>> >> God has indeed shown his gratitude. We see His blessings in our
>>> >> life every day! If you one day repent and accept the gift of
>>> >> Jesus Christ into your heart, you'll see the same blessings in
>>> >> your life as well.
>>> >
>>> > what blessings do you see, do you win the lottery daily?
>>>
>>> It constantly amazes me that not only do non-believers but most 
>>> Christians
>>> as well think that becoming a Christian gives the believer more money.
>>>
>>> >>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Strange isn't i?  A god that created the entire universe needs Carl 
>>> >>>to do
>>> >>>'His'
>>> >>>bidding.
>>> >>
>>> >> God needs nothing. It brings glory and honor to Him for us to do
>>> >> so. To follow His commandments is to honor God - to worship Him -
>>> >> our Creator and Savior.
>>> >
>>> > he didn't create us, my parents created me when they fucked
>>>
>>> Intercourse does indeed *start* the process of creating a human body; 
>>> but it
>>> is God that puts the *living* spirit into it.
>>
>> Does that include the one in 400,000 fetus that arrive from the womb 
>> grossly
>> deformed, so gross the parents are not allowed to see it?
>>
>> What is your god's rationale for that?
>>
> Acutely I would think it could be laid more on mans door step for putting 
> profit above safety.  Then because of such, hazardous chemicals polluting 
> our water and air and thus *man* not God is responsible for it.  Likewise 
> radiation is more then likely also to blame, which of course man let loose 
> in his inhumanity to man along with his wanting to make more money by 
> creating power from atomic power plants, further polluting the air and 
> water.  Hmm, I wonder if man irradiating food in an attempt to create more 
> money by allowing foods to remain on the shelves for a longer period of 
> time without spoilage?  I say *MAN* is responsible and NOT God.

so then your god is a USELESS PILE OF CRAP, and unable to prevent that from 
happening, or unable to resverse the trend? why does your god make babies 
suffer?
why is there a special "DEAD BABIES ONLY" section of the cemetery? why is 
the christian god such an ASSHOLE.

so, let's see, if I have the christian nutcase exscuse right, if the baby is 
born and lives a normal life, it's somehow all the sky pxie's god's doing, 
however if the baby dies a premature birth, then god had nothing to do with 
it, right christian nutcase? so, you're in effect admitting that your god is 
a USELESS PILE OF CRAP, thanks for admitting that



========
Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: God And Profanity
From: chief_thracianNO@SPAMyahoo.com (Chief Thracian)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:30:16 GMT

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:48:10 -0500, "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"
 wrote:

>so then your god is a USELESS PILE OF CRAP, and unable to prevent that from 
>happening, or unable to resverse the trend? why does your god make babies 
>suffer?
>why is there a special "DEAD BABIES ONLY" section of the cemetery? why is 
>the christian god such an ASSHOLE.

I offer an alternative belief, which neither Christians nor atheists
(of course) have considered. For want of a better term, I called this
philosophy "NeoPositivity"...which ENTIRE 3-part essay you can read
at:

http://www.gay-bible.org/write/4_neopositivity.htm

Allow me to post MOST of Part 2 here.

--begin excerpt:

MY MESSAGE TO A WICCAN NEWSGROUP
RE. "NEOCHRISTIANITY"

On Oct. 4, 2000,  Jaguar wrote:

>  Would that your fantasy be true.
>  Life experience tells us otherwise.
>  A wyrd can not be avoided.
>  None can live your life for you.

First of all, you are mixing apples and oranges. I was
originally only discussing the human spirit, not
animals...whose karma is quite different from ours.

You cannot use a bird's death as an example to prove anything
about the human condition. But since you chose a bird as your
case, I described the process. Apparantly, I need to give
further explanation:

The moment the cat started to chase the hapless bird, its soul
migrated into the body of another bird...one that already
exists elsewhere, or was instantaneously created out of your
range of site. For the remainder of the chase, an angel spirit
occupied the bird's dying body, until it was finally killed.

The difference between animal-soul migration, and that of
humans, is that an animal's soul can migrate to an existing
body, whereby two or more souls can happily coexist in the
same body indefinitely. In the case of humans, such sharing of
bodies as a result of migration, does not occur. Instead, the
person who is about to die, has his soul suddenly shunted into
the other dimension, where he can witness his own death
process as acted out by an angel now occupying his or her old
body.

If such a person is destined to be a survivor of a gruesome
experience--such as from a Nazi concentration camp--his soul
is finally returned to his original body, after the worst
agonies are over, and have been completely healed. Then, in
collaboration with the angels, he speaks to the world of his
abyssmal suffering at the hands of these evil people. He or
she has become, in essence, a Bodhisattva: one who has earned
the right to enter heaven, but instead decides to return to
earth in order to liberate more people. This is an act of
compassion, a sacrifice that only glorifies himself and God,
and the human spirit.

He has an unbreakable pact with the angels, to never discuss
the real truth: of his visit to Heaven, and return to act out
an incredible plot for the sake of humanity.

>  Your explainations are CHRISTIAN ones.
>  Not Wiccan, not Neo-Pagan.

False. Many Christians would see my viewpoints as
sacrilegeous.

> There are no Angel-Actors to step in to substitue for
> the unpleasant bits. There is no learning if there are
> no errors.

What is most interesting is your point of view: you cling to a
belief system that demands extraordinary suffering as a
necessary part of life, and of spiritual awakening. Now that I
have offered a much more God-loving alternative philosophy,
one wonders why you would choose to continue in your
nihilistic world view. This says a lot more about the person,
than it does the final truth.

And the final truth is this: that our Creator is far more
loving than you can imagine; than most people can imagine. He
would *never subject any of His wondrous children to such
unspeakable suffering. Instead, He contrived this grand,
incredible plot to *teach us lessons of compassion, by
witnessing the supposed suffering of others...rather than
letting *anyone go through such horrid trials.

This philosophy of such a loving God is *not part of Christian
theology, after all. It is far more in line with neo-paganism,
which has a much better grasp on the gentleness of mother
earth and her creatures.

>  Life feeds on life.

Not in the way you mean it. Not at all.

> You, due to your bias, are terrified of the
> patterns of nature.

Nonsense, I hold them in great reverence. I am quite capable
of letting go of such beliefs that define nature as harsh,
suffering, and uncaring.

> Little wonder you take refuge in Christian
> myth & symbols, where nature is considered
> cursed.

Untrue, again. I see all of nature, and me along with this, as
incredibly blessed. I use many pagan and wiccan symbols in my
personal theology, which I coin "NeoChristianity".

> However, your symbols are NOT pagan ones,
> no matter how hard you try to pass them
> off as such.

A cross is not ultimately pagan? The four directions? The tree
of life? Oh, come on now. The true seed of Christianity--all
but forgotten by most Christians, but not by true pagans--is
that we are all crucified, by virtue of just being conscious.

>  Joy & sadness, pleasure & pain... life covers them all.

I didn't say we don't experience suffering. What I am saying,
is that God (or Goddess, as you see fit) never lets us suffer
more than we can bear.

Many blessings to you, and all others who jump to conclusions
about my perspectives. But I do know exactly what I'm about,
and my purposes in this life...one of them being to speak out
to wiccan groups...which groups hold the truth of Christ far
better than most Christians.

--end of excerpt

-- 
Zeke Krahlin
http://www.gay-bible.org

========
Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christian.biblestudy
Subject: Re: God And Profanity
From: bob young 
Date: 15 Jan 2008 03:27:01 -0600



Sugien wrote:

> "bob young"  wrote in message
> news:478971DB.45167B8E@netvigator.com...
> >
> >
> > Sugien wrote:
> >
> >> "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"  wrote in message
> >> news:13ohsaa54nbq277@corp.supernews.com...
> >> >
> >> > "Gabriel"  wrote in message
> >> > news:p0qho3d0qal81g00ro5j9jo8f8njp3m6i0@4ax.com...
> >> >> On 12 Jan 2008 03:22:02 -0600, bob young
> >> >>  wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Carl wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> Dave certainly likes to use profanity in his Usenet posts. That's
> >> >>>> really too
> >> >>>> bad because he might be able to communicate more effectively and
> >> >>>> intelligently if he would refrain from using profanity. Leslie
> >> >>>> Trombly's
> >> >>>> sermon centers on man's use of profanity and how we may try to
> >> >>>> better
> >> >>>> avoid
> >> >>>> falling into that trap. I hope Dave reads this and perhaps he might
> >> >>>> find it
> >> >>>> uplifting and edifying.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Does your god never show it's eternal gratitiude to you humans for
> >> >>>doing
> >> >>>all of
> >> >>>'His' work for him and for knowing so much about what 'He' thinks?
> >> >>
> >> >> God has indeed shown his gratitude. We see His blessings in our
> >> >> life every day! If you one day repent and accept the gift of
> >> >> Jesus Christ into your heart, you'll see the same blessings in
> >> >> your life as well.
> >> >
> >> > what blessings do you see, do you win the lottery daily?
> >>
> >> It constantly amazes me that not only do non-believers but most
> >> Christians
> >> as well think that becoming a Christian gives the believer more money.
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Strange isn't i?  A god that created the entire universe needs Carl to
> >> >>>do
> >> >>>'His'
> >> >>>bidding.
> >> >>
> >> >> God needs nothing. It brings glory and honor to Him for us to do
> >> >> so. To follow His commandments is to honor God - to worship Him -
> >> >> our Creator and Savior.
> >> >
> >> > he didn't create us, my parents created me when they fucked
> >>
> >> Intercourse does indeed *start* the process of creating a human body; but
> >> it
> >> is God that puts the *living* spirit into it.
> >
> > Does that include the one in 400,000 fetus that arrive from the womb
> > grossly
> > deformed, so gross the parents are not allowed to see it?
> >
> > What is your god's rationale for that?
> >
> Acutely I would think it could be laid more on mans door step for putting
> profit above safety.

Groan -Puleeese do me a favour.  How can man effect the actions of growth in
the womb so that a body has it's heart located on the outside with no mouth or
nose arrives?

Have you never heard of the animals on show in fun fairs ? "Come see the goat
with two heads and the rat with five legs"

>  Then because of such, hazardous chemicals polluting
> our water and air and thus *man* not God is responsible for it.

Oh I see.  Well history shows that freak were on show in circuses in my gear
great grandpa's days.  Anyway, why does you god not prevent these horrors from
happening, after all we are 'in his image right'  Is that 'HIS' image?

>  Likewise
> radiation is more then likely also to blame,

See above re my grandparents

> which of course man let loose
> in his inhumanity to man along with his wanting to make more money by
> creating power from atomic power plants, further polluting the air and
> water.  Hmm, I wonder if man irradiating food in an attempt to create more
> money by allowing foods to remain on the shelves for a longer period of time
> without spoilage?  I say *MAN* is responsible and NOT God.

I say neither - I say it is the random process of nature [evolution] going
wrong as it so often does.

"I'm looking over a four leaf clover"

Remember that song?  Look anywhere in nature and these hiccups can be found
with ease.

>
>
> --
> From the Desk of Paul   CKC
> ........... /}
> @###{ ]::::::Cyber Knight for Christ::::::>
> -------- \}

I trust you are not prolonging the Crusades are you Paul?

They were a perfect example of what humans tend to do whenever their particular
belief is challenged

bob
humanist Brit.





========
Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet.christianlife
Subject: Re: God And Profanity
From: chief_thracianNO@SPAMyahoo.com (Chief Thracian)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:30:20 GMT

On 15 Jan 2008 03:27:01 -0600, bob young 
wrote:

>Oh I see.  Well history shows that freak were on show in circuses in my gear
>great grandpa's days.  Anyway, why does you god not prevent these horrors from
>happening, after all we are 'in his image right'  Is that 'HIS' image?

You ask such easy questions, Bob! I'm surprised these so-called
Christians have any difficulty answering them.

God ALLOWS certain horrors/atrocities to exist, that we may learn
compassion, toleration, and long suffering. But those SAME mutilated
humans are NOT truly humans...they are ANGELS playing these roles,
that God may teach us those valuable lessons withOUT any human
actually suffering such a horrid fate.

Likewise to answer you "why do babies suffer in war" question...the
classic question posed by ALL good atheists. It is EASY to answer:

Children's souls/consciousness are taken from their bodies PRIOR to
the commencement of such egregious suffering. In their place are
ANGELS acting out the remainder of their life...or until a time when
the cause of their misery ceases.

That is the ONLY reasoning that makes sense, if one truly does believe
in a loving God.

But even Christians miss this point, perhaps because many of their ilk
are ADDICTED to misery.


-- 
Zeke Krahlin
http://www.gay-bible.org

========
Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: God And Profanity
From: chief_thracianNO@SPAMyahoo.com (Chief Thracian)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:30:14 GMT

On 12 Jan 2008 20:08:02 -0600, bob young 
wrote:

>Does that include the one in 400,000 fetus that arrive from the womb grossly
>deformed, so gross the parents are not allowed to see it?

We are each expected to bear our share of mysery, as well as of joy.
That is how we become mature in spirit.

There are many "good" reasons to NOT believe in a Creator. You,
unfortunately, reveal only the "bad" ones.



-- 
Zeke Krahlin
http://www.gay-bible.org

========
Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christian.biblestudy
Subject: Re: God And Profanity
From: bob young 
Date: 12 Jan 2008 20:06:02 -0600



Gabriel wrote:

> On 12 Jan 2008 03:22:02 -0600, bob young
>  wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Carl wrote:
> >
> >> Dave certainly likes to use profanity in his Usenet posts. That's really too
> >> bad because he might be able to communicate more effectively and
> >> intelligently if he would refrain from using profanity. Leslie Trombly's
> >> sermon centers on man's use of profanity and how we may try to better avoid
> >> falling into that trap. I hope Dave reads this and perhaps he might find it
> >> uplifting and edifying.
> >
> >Does your god never show it's eternal gratitiude to you humans for doing all of
> >'His' work for him and for knowing so much about what 'He' thinks?
>
> God has indeed shown his gratitude. We see His blessings in our
> life every day!

You mean tsunamis that sweep thousands of children ou to sea to drown, those kind
of blessings?  Or do you only want it your way and ignore children born mentally
retarded and cripped?

'In 'His own image ! ' Garbage

Man makes his god in his image and then manipulates it, loke you do, to his heart's
content

> If you one day repent and accept the gift of
> Jesus Christ into your heart, you'll see the same blessings in
> your life as well.
>
> >
> >Strange isn't i?  A god that created the entire universe needs Carl to do 'His'
> >bidding.
>
> God needs nothing. It brings glory and honor to Him for us to do
> so. To follow His commandments is to honor God - to worship Him -
> our Creator and Savior.

Wrong, Carl shows otherwise along with millions of others, all speaking for a god
that cannot speak for itself.

It spoke to Moses right?  why not today?

>
>
> Praise the Lord and give thanks for His grace!

Tell that to a mother that has just given birth to a blind baby

>
>
> gabriel


========
Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet.christianlife
Subject: Re: God And Profanity
From: chief_thracianNO@SPAMyahoo.com (Chief Thracian)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:40:56 GMT

On 12 Jan 2008 20:06:02 -0600, bob young 
wrote:

>It spoke to Moses right?  why not today?

God DOES speak to those who learn how to listen. And others, who are
blessed. It has always been so. But Christianity and other mainstream
beliefs have lost the way, with rare exception. That is why I prefer
to study shamanistic and pagan beliefs.

>> Praise the Lord and give thanks for His grace!
>
>Tell that to a mother that has just given birth to a blind baby

If the mother has a solid relationship with God, she will find a way
through this, and resume a joyful, though wiser, life. And minister
who'd say such a thing to her in her deepest grief, is a fool, and NOT
God's way.


-- 
Zeke Krahlin
http://www.gay-bible.org

========
Newsgroups: alt.bible, alt.christnet, alt.christnet.bible, 
	alt.christnet.christianlife, alt.religion.christian
Subject: Re: God And Profanity
From: Father Haskell 
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 18:27:47 -0800 (PST)

On Jan 12, 1:34 am, "Carl"  wrote:
> Dave certainly likes to use profanity in his Usenet posts. That's really too
> bad because he might be able to communicate more effectively and
> intelligently if he would refrain from using profanity.

That's not what Patton said.

========
Newsgroups: alt.bible, alt.christnet, alt.christnet.bible, 
	alt.christnet.christianlife, alt.religion.christian
Subject: Re: God And Profanity
From: saints@nettally.com
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 10:55:22 -0800 (PST)

On Jan 12, 9:27=A0pm, Father Haskell  wrote:
> On Jan 12, 1:34 am, "Carl"  wrote:
>
> > Dave certainly likes to use profanity in his Usenet posts. That's really=
 too
> > bad because he might be able to communicate more effectively and
> > intelligently if he would refrain from using profanity.
>
> That's not what Patton said.

Patton wasn't claiming to be a "Pastor."

May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/

========
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Subject: Re: God And Profanity
From: walksalone 
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 20:56:30 +0000 (UTC)

john w @yahoo.com> 
news:iieno3li3qfpl1o5ok9ofvgk5dq7ob14m2@4ax.com totally bored out of his 
mind, decided to abuse himself and the usenet audience by wasting 209 
lines of text, just to pretend he can understand his mythology.


From: john w @yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: 
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Subject: Re: God And Profanity
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:41:49 -0800
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> On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 01:34:10 -0500, "Carl" 
> wrote:

>>Dave certainly likes to use profanity in his Usenet posts. That's
>>really too bad because he might be able to communicate more
>>effectively and intelligently if he would refrain from using
>>profanity. Leslie Trombly's sermon centers on man's use of profanity
>>and how we may try to better avoid falling into that trap. I hope Dave
>>reads this and perhaps he might find it uplifting and edifying.
> 
>   I know of few Christians who would not admit to the occasional
> "slip." 

In your case, only when caught out.

>   Thankfully, if we are born-again children of God, we have an
> advocate.

You have a Greek substitute for personal responsibility and conduct 
becoming a human being.

>   Let's not forget that. 
>   Too many (not you, Carl), are too quick to point fingers and judge,
> and they are WAY too quick to FORGET that God is loving; He does not
> stand over us with a club, waiting for us to "screw up."

He watches everything you do, don't you remember.  He knows every hair on 
your head and every sparrow that falls.  It's also, his way or the 
highway after they break your knee caps.  Commonly referred to as the 
carrot and stick approach to mob control.

>   He stands over us with a hand out-stretched, waiting to pick us up
> when we fall. Because He knows we're going to fall, and He won't leave
> us "flat on our face."

If he does, how come you're the only one that gets to see them.  After 
all, xianity has four major gods, and countless minor ones.
 
>   I wonder how many of us think about the FACT that we were designed
> to fail.  We were designed to fail so that we would be FORCED to look
> to Him for our sustenance.

I wonder how many xians consider the fact, a perfect being would not know 
how to create an imperfect object.  Of course, people like you cannot 
comprehend a question of that nature.  Or the consequences of such a 
question.
 
>  If we were perfect, we'd have no need of Him!

If you were perfect, you would not exist as a human being.  I know not 
what life form would have, but it would not be human.  Of course, your 
conduct sometimes makes one think, you're not human anyway.

Snip prior

which wannabe this time jonny, but not so great pretender who assumes 
everybody will believe his bullshit, just because he does.

walksalone who has to wonder what the criteria is for Johnny's postings.  
It can't be accuracy, he can be knowledge about mythology, it certainly 
is not have knowledge about much of anything.  Possibly it's simply a 
back door for him to gather his required narcissistic points.

========
Newsgroups: alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.christianlife
Subject: Re: God And Profanity
From: chief_thracianNO@SPAMyahoo.com (Chief Thracian)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 21:30:54 GMT

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 17:02:33 -0600,
walksalone@dastardly.dirty.deeds.done.dirt.cheap.llc wrote:

>Unfortunately, it appears you are trying to use, probably without your
>awareness, several logical fallacies to start with. 

If you could state these fallacies in particular (say, in a brief
list), I'd most appreciate it.

>Apparently you are
>using a definition of perfect that I am unaware of, commonly referred to
>as special pleading or special definitions.  

You ought to be aware of such a definition. Certain spiritual
philosophies include the belief that all is perfect as it now stands.
Whatever goes on is MEANT to happen, though we may not understand WHY.
Perhaps we will with hindsight...and depending on the incident,
hindsight could mean anywhere from a few moments to EONS. While I may
not agree with this or that religion which incorporates the belief
that ALL is perfect right now, I DO abide by that one viewpoint.

And haven't you heard the saying, "Nobody's perfect?"

THAT is the definition of "perfection" as an admirable--albeit
impossible--goal. YOUR definition of perfect is a more casual use, as
in "What a perfect day" or "I got a perfect score on my test". But you
CLAIM to NOT be familiar with those two OTHER definitions I just
described.

>Now you're going to tell me that
>there's a god running around out there, they can use imperfections as a
>perfection.  In other words, in the case of humanity, piss poor design is
>perfection. 

You act as judge and jury to what you deem is and is not "perfect".
What you call "piss poor design" may indeed serve a higher purpose. A
purpose which we may not comprehend at the time...but will, with
hindsight. Maybe the hindsight of a few days, maybe of centuries.

>In the Ordinance Corps, we had what we called the six P.
>program.  Prior planning prevents pis poor performance.  The human body
>and the remainder of the universe shows no indication of that program ever
>being used.

It does to me! DNA seems like a pretty intelligent program, for
example. The whole map, the entire memory of all life from its very
beginning contained in a single strand!

>Actually, no they were not all that different.  They, like today's
>xianity, were easily led by the nose and believed what their fearless
>leaders told them.  Like today's Islamic's & the original followers of
>Allah, they considered themselves a elect society devoted to the true god. 
>If you are not a member of the in club, you might as well not exist.

They were also desperate times, which made people desperate for hope,
and highly gullible. Xianity is nothing more than the theft and
distortion of earlier belief systems. There WERE, however, early Xians
who DID preach humility and service to their fellow men. I'm not
speaking of the general populace, as you are, but of the occasional
exceptions to the rule of "human nature" (meaning greed and
gullibility).

But it's not important to me to argue the pros and cons of various
forms of Xianity. You can denounce it all you want, doesn't bother me
in the least. Humanity never needed another religion, and it would be
NO loss should Xianity disappear from our planet.

I am a student of world religions and world views, among other
subjects. I take an anthropological stance, along with philosophical.

>I consider them less than an ideal design, much better suited to somebody
>or something that walks around on four legs rather than two legs like
>humans do.  Like the human eye, there are better ways to have done it in
>the beginning.  But evolution explains the problems quite well.

Humanity has the great destiny to ultimately reshape itself, both
physcially and mentally. The keys to existence will eventually be
handed to us, as nature's greatest gift. If the creator left nothing
for us to criticize, or be unhappy about, there'd be no room for us to
PARTICIPATE in creation.

I see NOTHING wrong with your outrage, your criticism. In fact, I'm
sure God is proud of you for your honest appraisal...MUCH prouder than
he'd be over some simpering, religion-repressed dufus!

>>surgeon does not...he sees human insides as a glorious miracle of nature.
>
>I've never had one described them that way.

Perhaps you need to include more friends in your life that are
intelligent! I know I do, but it sure is HARD trying to shove away all
the idiots that stand between us.

>Then that particular god is not one worthy of adoration or worship.  

Understanding how you PERCEIVE reality, I can easily grasp your take
on this matter. No, of course not. Under your set of values, such a
God is NOT worthy.

But obviously I have a DIFFERENT understanding of the purpose behind
these ugly/unfair situations you clearly describe. To me, God is like
a drill sergeant, who knows you joined the Marines because you wanna be
THE BEST. What does being "best" imply? It means you'll be run through
ROUGHER boot camp than your average soldier, and expected to bear MORE
difficulities with LESS--scratch that, NO--whining whatsoever.

So the sergeant UNDERSTANDS perfectly, if sometimes you wanna choke
him to death, and stomp all over him. In fact, he'd prefer you DIRECT
all your anger and frustrations at him, the REAL cause of your pain,
than to strike out at innocent passersby.

But because the sergeant knows the ultimate REWARDS and PERFECTION of
your spirit that shall result for your long-suffering under incredible
hardship and against many odds...he will NEVER hesistate from, or
soften, the TOUGH training that he hopes you'll see through till the
final test.

>From
>the cancers that leaves small children, adults, as well as the elderly
>screaming for mercy, to the quiet debilitating diseases such as diabetes,
>to the extreme diseases such as Ebola, the human body should have been
>designed against those things.

I already explained (in Part 2 of NeoPositivity) how these EXTREMES of
suffering are an illusion. You can throw all the examples you want at
me, but the same rule applies to them all.

>So if you are saying that
>my aching back is not the results of my having made money for my family a
>breaking horses at five dollars a head, I'm going to say, sure, now go
>ahead and pull the other one.  The human body can't accept only so much
>abuse before it starts to hurt you back, and I exceed my limits.

I didn't say God doesn't push the envelope with each of us, regarding
how much suffering is metered out. To each individual, we may go
through trials of fire where it SEEMS like we just can't take it any
more, we're gonna BREAK.

Each person differs in how much suffering one can bear, and in which
KIND of suffering.

>Now, it
>has turn to tell me all about it, and compared to many around me, I have
>no aches or pains.  On the personal level, the only time I pay attention
>to a pain is when it is missing.  Between rheumatism and a spavined back,
>fading eyesight, knees, hips & ankles that are shot, I know  what
>perfection is not.

Your drill sergeant has BIG plans for you, indeed! There is a kernel
of truth in that saying, "God must love you very much." For he ONLY
brings extraordinary suffering to those from whom he expects
GREATNESS. You do not know my brand of suffering; suffice it to say
I've conquered borderline schizophrenia and manic-depression with NO
drugs whatsoever. (Well, marijuana has been a great healing aid, when
I could afford it, which is not very often.) I've had TERRIBLE bouts
with insanity, with NO ONE to guide or support me...in fact, it would
draw enemies to me, who'd HECKLE and HARASS me, in hopes it would put
me over the edge, permanently!

What is the reward for such long-suffering? For one, it has given me a
great spirit, the gift of writing and speaking, incredible insight, a
WONDERFUL lover, about whom you can read in this book I recently wrote
about him:

The Larkin Chronicles
http://www.gay-bible.org/truetales/Larkin/LC_chapters.htm

In fact, that book, plus its accompanying novel (that sprang from that
book), "Friendly Ghost Detective Agency", discuss many spiritual
concepts, and describe how they've changed my life, and turned my
world into a Great Adventure. Much humor is in both works, BTW. Just
go here:

Steal This Blog
http://www.gay-bible.org/steal

to access either novel. They're both FREE as online works, no strings
attached. The electronic versions will ALWAYS be free.

Now, back to YOU: I am sorry for your difficult ailments, and can only
imagine how much that painful burden weighs down on your shoulders,
and makes so much of living into a grievous ordeal. I have requested
my angels if it is at all possible, to bless you with REAL relief that
is PERMANENT. You strike as a most intelligent, compassionate human
being, who could achieve so much GOOD in this world, once your painful
burdens are gone, or at least, considerably diminished.

One piece of wisdom that life has taught me:

The secrets of the universe are not handed to you on a silver platter.
They are sparsely given to you, each a priceless gift, as through your
forbearance and goodwill earns each one. (Or doesn't, if you are
particularly ornery and mean-spirited!) What wisdom I share with you,
you do not grasp at this time, because you are not SUPPOSED to. 

By the same token, because we've been brought together, so I CAN
impart my philosophy, indicates you are soon READY for a greater
understanding, thanks to your heroic struggles over many years.
Likewise OTHERS fortunate enough to discover my missives herein.

I do not condemn your viewpoint, I don't even CRITICIZE it. For I KNOW
we each are at different stages of personal evolution. It would be
ARROGANT and mean of me, to lecture you, as if I were "better than
thou." I wish for you some sort of delightful SURPRISE that will not
only bring relief to your medical problems, but also provide access
to achieve the SUCCESS you so well deserve.

>walksalone who does not blame any god for his physical condition, it would
>be nice to be able to blame someone else, but it would be a lie.

Blame the sergeant. That's what he's there for. And he'll understand.
(But probably force you to do 30 pushups for whining!)

>Most people are bothered by those passages of Scripture they do not
>understand, but the passages  that bother me are those I do understand.
>-- Mark Twain, quoted from Barbara Schmidt, ed., "Mark Twain Quotations,
>Newspaper Collections, &  Related Resources"

I ADORE Mark Twain. In fact, I've read MANY of his books as a
teenager. I just wrote a poem whose title is a paraphrase of one of
Twain's famous sayings:

Rumors Of My Death Are Queerly Exaggerated
http://www.gay-bible.org/truetales/Larkin/FG_06-N.htm

I want to thank you for providing me with this golden opportunity to
share my thoughts, and give you what ideas I can, in hopes they'll
relieve your suffering in some significant way. Let me close with a
passage from my book "Friendly Ghost Detective Agency," which is
actually how it ends. The bracketed lines are in place of images. If
you want to view this passage w/images, go here:

http://www.gay-bible.org/truetales/Larkin/FG_07.htm

That chapter ("Contusion", a pun on "conclusion") is a work in
progress, along with three others (out of eight). I give my readers
the pleasure of viewing my novel's progress.

--begin passage:

I feel like Anne Frank hidden away in a stuffy attic amid a City Of
Demons:

    [The Flame Of Hope.] 

Yet the Light of Hope burns brightly in her innocent bosom, and she
continues to take pen to her beloved blog...each and every day. And
each and every day she summons up another Positive Thought Of Most
Profound Implication. Only my attic is this: more than 22 years'
social isolation cultivated by my so-called enemies, this "Order of
The Disciples Of The Zodiac Killer".

But I take the Buddhist spin: "We have no enemies only teachers." Thus
all my enemies--even The Most Profoundly Wicked--are playing their
role as protagonists, that I may struggle mightily towards success,
and become a World Renowned Hero Of Herculean Proportion in so doing.
IOW: My Enemies are also Beloved Angels, who I'm sure grieve terribly
over Evil Wrought Upon Me by their own divine hands! But they are only
doing what needs be done for my soul to fulfill a Most Remarkable
Destiny. They nail me to the cross, and in so doing, nail each other!
(Hmmm, sounds like a sex orgy to me.) :b

So my angels are sicko's, what's a girl to do? I like to joke about My
Dear Street Buddy Jonny, who is so much like a Protector Soul to me
(or at least he was until The Big Betrayal Of January Oh-Six):

"No wonder my life is such a mess. My guardian angel's a junkie!"

If this is true, if ANY of this is true, then I'd say my life has
become one of The Greatest Stories Ever Told. But I'll let you in on a
secret:

I am AFRAID to complete this story...afraid in spite of its beauty,
its brilliance...this Holy Grail Of My Soul. Afraid because Goddess
may deem a Most Dramatic Finale To My Unbelievably Awesome Odyssey.

[Hey, ghoulfriend!]

For, like Anne Frank's sad fate, She Who Weaves Our Lives Together And
Unravels Them Too, may decide that My Sacred Message Which Will
Ultimately Free All Homosexuals Everywhere From The Chains Of Terror,
will have much more impact if I am swept from this planet by a
shockingly tragic and mortal demise. (Can you say "Harvey Milk"?)

But that's not having FAITH, is it? Shame, shame, shame on me...slap
my wrist and take a pee (I trod The Path Of Joy, you see)! Now it is
up to each of you, how you should regard my story and consequently,
me, ZEKE KRAHLIN. You may not like what phantom stirs in your heart.
And if that be the case, well: the answers to changing your life for
the better are all contained within this single, ghastly tale (with
hyperlinks to additional wisdom.) But if you conclude I am nothing
more than a crazy fag...then may Goddess have mercy on your punky,
stinky, rotten little excuse of a soul! And BTW:

Don't slam the door on your way out.

That was supposed to be the ending to my Friendly Ghost Tale, but then
whilst taking a shower down the hallway, My Angel Randolph appeared
(as he always enjoys a naked boy), and instructed me to write down a
vision he will now reveal:

I ascend to Mt. Olympus where Mighty Zeus is seated on His throne. To
the left is another slightly smaller throne, though no less
exquisitely carved. It is empty. To my right, another throne identical
to the left one. It is occupied. By an angel. Saint Michael I presume?
(He nods his head at me.) Zeus offers me the empty throne.

"But that's Jesus's place. I couldn't sit there!"

"Ezekiel, don't be silly. You're Our Most Favored Guest. My Son, were
He here right now, would consider it a great honor. Please, be seated
and ask the question for which I summoned you in the first place."

"Question? I don't remember asking you any question." I ponder.

"Yes. It was two days ago, you had a question that intrigued me very
much," He insists. "Give yourself a moment."

I lean back, caressing my chin in studious contemplation, then:
"Eureka! I DO remember."

    [Whadda ya know: a green cliche!] 

Here is my question: "I don't necessarily believe this guy Jesus
really exists, but if he did..."

Zeus interrupts: "Doesn't exist? INTERESTING. Do go on."

"Well, I'VE never met Him, not even in my dreams and visions. Never."
I look around. "He's not here now is He?"

"Ummm, yes and no. Please continue."

"I don't even think YOU really exist. You could simply be a figment of
my imagination, a manifestation of another dream vision...an
undigested bit of tofu, a blot of Veganaise, a crumb of rice cake, a
fragment of underdone tomacco."

"Oh that's royal!" Zeus thunders in laughter. "You're a hoot Ezekiel,
a real hoot!" He dries His Copious Tears, then settles down again.
"Interesting premise. Continue."

"Anywayz. If Jesus does exist, along with His Holy Father...Who is
Yourself, I presume."

Zeus glows warmly, and we are bathed in a shower of golden light. (A
circle of angels high above are pissing from some Damn Righteous
Nicely Cut Wangers, grasping each other's in a Divine Daisy Chain.) I
tear myself away from this unexpected distraction, to state my
premise:

"If He exists, I conclude that Christ doesn't really care whether you
believe in Him or not. What DOES matter is that you live by the Golden
Rule. Believing in Jesus or not, has no bearing on how God judges you.
Correct?"

"Uh, yes, ab-so-loot-a-men-tay, Ezekiel! Neither My Beloved Son NOR
Myself, who IS Your Creator whether you believe in Him or not," He
stifles a guffaw, "do not care a harpie's turd if you believe in
either of Us. The Golden Rule IS as you correctly surmise, THE Measure
Of All Things To Be Judged."

"Aha, I thought so," I smugly proclaim, straightening my back with
pride, smiling into the Ultimate Deity's cold, stormy eyes.

    [My Randolph] 

Zeus leans closer. I shiver ecstatically, He is that handsome. (Or
maybe this throne in which I'm seated is wired for electricity.)

He chooses His next words carefully: "But...there is just one
important aspect to all this, that seems to elude you."

"Okay, I'll bite. What?"

"No one really has to believe in Me OR Jesus. But if he doesn't, then
he MUST believe in one particular person above all others."

I am delightfully shocked at this declaration. "Oh?" I query. "And
who..."

He abruptly presses a glorious finger to my lips. The salt is sweet!
His scent: like tangerine musk. I drool.

"Hush, this is important! Allow me to complete my thought." Zeus takes
a moment to clear his throat (and the clouds gather, the skies rumble,
lightning bolts flash above, angels zip up their robes and swiftly
depart). He puffs up his uber-chest in a piano-grand display ("Oh
Bluto!" swoons Olive Oyl), leans even closer (cool breath cleansing my
face like well-water), then declares:

"And I make NO exceptions to that rule. Absolutely none."

--finis


-- 
Zeke Krahlin
http://www.gay-bible.org

-- 
Zeke Krahlin
http://www.gay-bible.org

========
Newsgroups: alt.christnet, alt.religion.christian, alt.religion.christian.baptist, 
	alt.religion.christian.biblestudy, alt.religion.christian.pentecostal
Subject: Re: God And Profanity
From: JohnH 
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 06:44:04 -0800 (PST)

Carl wrote:
> Dave certainly likes to use profanity in his Usenet posts. That's really too
> bad because he might be able to communicate more effectively and
> intelligently if he would refrain from using profanity. Leslie Trombly's
> sermon centers on man's use of profanity and how we may try to better avoid
> falling into that trap. I hope Dave reads this and perhaps he might find it
> uplifting and edifying.

Interesting.  Tell me, have you ever rebuked john w about his use of
unChristian language like this, or do you, like Vera, ignore that,
too?
>
> May God bless,
> Carl